PA Sqn Ldrs grounded
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Ground tours for PA Sqn Ldrs is nothing new, it is part of the TOS unlike the the old Spec Aircrew system. I have done 2 and am now enjoying a flying tour again. There are many who have never done a staff tour and I do not expect to do another until they have.
As he said above ^^^^
Being paid close to a Wg Cdr's wage to do a staff job as a Flt Lt or Sqn Ldr isn't all that bad. Also, 'general list' (or whatever they call them) Sqn Ldrs usually only get one flying tour as a Flt Cdr, so they don't have the same opportunities to go back to flying as PAS.
So, suck it up, it is part of your TOS and when the RAF are short of aircrew with your skill set they'll be sure to return you to flying.
LJ
Being paid close to a Wg Cdr's wage to do a staff job as a Flt Lt or Sqn Ldr isn't all that bad. Also, 'general list' (or whatever they call them) Sqn Ldrs usually only get one flying tour as a Flt Cdr, so they don't have the same opportunities to go back to flying as PAS.
So, suck it up, it is part of your TOS and when the RAF are short of aircrew with your skill set they'll be sure to return you to flying.
LJ
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Ground Tours
You only have to look at some of the leadership by likership of some in the SH force who have been promoted with a short OOA before returning to the fleet to realise that a 2 year ground tour benefits the individual in broadening and widening ones outlook. The ones that go on a ground tour stand out a mile above their peers.
You pay your money and take your chance, after all there are more desks than aircraft these days.......enjoy the break from the crewroom and actually see how the Air Farce is run.
Shame that the desk officers cant seem to get the manning deficit under control and the 'Pilot Indiced Oscillations' of manning the aircrew desks will continue unabated until they put someone in there who is less cavalier and doesnt have a 2 years and its over mentality.
You pay your money and take your chance, after all there are more desks than aircraft these days.......enjoy the break from the crewroom and actually see how the Air Farce is run.
Shame that the desk officers cant seem to get the manning deficit under control and the 'Pilot Indiced Oscillations' of manning the aircrew desks will continue unabated until they put someone in there who is less cavalier and doesnt have a 2 years and its over mentality.
Last edited by SaddamsLoveChild; 7th Apr 2013 at 09:46.
I understand that the latest Sqn Ldr PA Spine ToS has a clause that states:
This is far from the bias towards flying appointments there was in the past. It would require a critical shortage in flying appointments before an SO2 was released to a down-borne OF2 post. There is nothing that prevents being appointed to an OF3 flying post, just that there is usually no difficulty in filling these posts with career stream OF3s. The amplification attached to the RoS goes on to state:
'...employment will be limited to OF3 flying or flying related staff appointments'.
'…the majority/all of your remaining service will be in staff appointments.'
Last edited by Just This Once...; 7th Apr 2013 at 12:45. Reason: Added exact ToS wording
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As has already been said, PAS is not the same as the old Spec Aircrew scheme where you got long term stability in a flying job for extra money - win/win/win!
PAS is designed to keep aircrew with the right qualifications in to do flying related posts.
Whilst it will vary between FJ/RW/AT, the truth is that at SO2 level there are plenty of desk jobs, the vast majority of SO2 flying jobs are for those moving up through the system and the chances of you occupying a Flt Lt flying post as a Sqn Ldr are remote while there are empty staff posts.
Certainly in the FJ world if you get a flying job you are very lucky (or have just the right quals at just the right time). Haven't heard that it is as bad as "only ground tours" though.
PAS is designed to keep aircrew with the right qualifications in to do flying related posts.
Whilst it will vary between FJ/RW/AT, the truth is that at SO2 level there are plenty of desk jobs, the vast majority of SO2 flying jobs are for those moving up through the system and the chances of you occupying a Flt Lt flying post as a Sqn Ldr are remote while there are empty staff posts.
Certainly in the FJ world if you get a flying job you are very lucky (or have just the right quals at just the right time). Haven't heard that it is as bad as "only ground tours" though.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Spec aircrew wasn't all flying and roses - 3 1/2 years at Nav School, 5 years in a Sim and 3 years in Ops.
Problem is that once your aircrew speciality runs down they end up with old hands that it is not worth retraining or are too high a training risk.
Ground tours become inevitable.
Problem is that once your aircrew speciality runs down they end up with old hands that it is not worth retraining or are too high a training risk.
Ground tours become inevitable.
Spec aircrew always was flying or flying-related, same applies to PA.
The big difference was/is that SA Sqn Ldrs used to be handled by the JO poster whereas PA Sqn Ldrs are owned by the Sqn Ldr poster. Many more PA Sqn Ldrs are filling SO2 posts than used to be filled by SA Sqn Ldrs.
The big difference was/is that SA Sqn Ldrs used to be handled by the JO poster whereas PA Sqn Ldrs are owned by the Sqn Ldr poster. Many more PA Sqn Ldrs are filling SO2 posts than used to be filled by SA Sqn Ldrs.
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Yep, but I think there is now a totally different view in manning on how they are used.
Pontious, you are right and I think it is still similar, it depends not just on FJ/RW/ME but on specialisation (FJ navs won't be getting many flying jobs in 7 years or so) as well as SO2 or SO3.
Another difference between SA and PAS is that PAS is not supposed to make any difference to your promotion prospects.
Pontious, you are right and I think it is still similar, it depends not just on FJ/RW/ME but on specialisation (FJ navs won't be getting many flying jobs in 7 years or so) as well as SO2 or SO3.
Another difference between SA and PAS is that PAS is not supposed to make any difference to your promotion prospects.
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Another difference between SA and PAS is that PAS is not supposed to make any difference to your promotion prospects.
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The unforeseen consequence of this might be twofold.
1. There is no one who can stand up to toxic leadership. Flt Cdrs and ExOs are too busy feathering their own report.
2. There is no one to mentor and correct the more junior personnel when they are about to go and do something stupid. This often happens when the boss is away on his 4-6 monther, one Flt Cdr is preparing to go on ops, another is just back. Supervision is spread thinly etc.
Ground tours are to be expected, at the moment, but I expect things will change if the incident/accident rate starts creeping up again.
1. There is no one who can stand up to toxic leadership. Flt Cdrs and ExOs are too busy feathering their own report.
2. There is no one to mentor and correct the more junior personnel when they are about to go and do something stupid. This often happens when the boss is away on his 4-6 monther, one Flt Cdr is preparing to go on ops, another is just back. Supervision is spread thinly etc.
Ground tours are to be expected, at the moment, but I expect things will change if the incident/accident rate starts creeping up again.
