RPAS Pilots Awarded Wings
Nutloose,
Not really answering Hueymeister's question; and with that and some other comments in this thread, I think you might be confusing Reaper with some of the smaller-scale tactical UAVs that are operated from a desk or a laptop in a case. They sit in what to all intents and purposes is a cockpit, with a stick, rudder pedals, a throttle quadrant etc, and can fly the aircraft entirely manually if they like.
For Hueymeister, no; the current pilots flying Reaper retain their normal wings and the opportunity to return to manned flying. These guys were in the Ops Spt branch and were put through a trial to test a bespoke training system for RPA-only pilots. Now that it exists and has been proven, people will be able to walk in to a careers office from the street and join as a pure RPA pilot.
It's not a new branch, it's a sub-specialisation of the Flying branch that sits alongside pilot, WSO and WSOp.
Not really answering Hueymeister's question; and with that and some other comments in this thread, I think you might be confusing Reaper with some of the smaller-scale tactical UAVs that are operated from a desk or a laptop in a case. They sit in what to all intents and purposes is a cockpit, with a stick, rudder pedals, a throttle quadrant etc, and can fly the aircraft entirely manually if they like.
For Hueymeister, no; the current pilots flying Reaper retain their normal wings and the opportunity to return to manned flying. These guys were in the Ops Spt branch and were put through a trial to test a bespoke training system for RPA-only pilots. Now that it exists and has been proven, people will be able to walk in to a careers office from the street and join as a pure RPA pilot.
It's not a new branch, it's a sub-specialisation of the Flying branch that sits alongside pilot, WSO and WSOp.
These fellows do go through aircrew-esque selection at OASC I presume - do they do any other of the other trg - MOORTREK, SERE, etc? Probably not...
Similarly, what about Fighter Controllers and Airborne Techs wearing aircrew brevets (and never taking them off ever again, even when tourex'd)? Surely there is the precedent for non-aircrew to wear a flying badge?
As the minority here have said - good luck to 'em! Wish I was RPAS: big bucks in civvy street soon one imagines.
Similarly, what about Fighter Controllers and Airborne Techs wearing aircrew brevets (and never taking them off ever again, even when tourex'd)? Surely there is the precedent for non-aircrew to wear a flying badge?
As the minority here have said - good luck to 'em! Wish I was RPAS: big bucks in civvy street soon one imagines.
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If you disregard those who will have the knowledge to tell the difference between UAV/RPAV/very big and deadly model* pilots and those who actually leave the ground, to most people these pilots with their freshly awarded badges are now officially part of the Two-winged Master Race!
* Delete as required
* Delete as required
I believe (thankfully) the RAF has put in a large order for the new wings.
Can't wait to see how the new breed of untermench master race will represent with 'just their hands', how they conducted an intercept.
If only they'd had RPAS technology in Beagles day,many people would have been spared much heartache!
Can't wait to see how the new breed of untermench master race will represent with 'just their hands', how they conducted an intercept.
If only they'd had RPAS technology in Beagles day,many people would have been spared much heartache!
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Despite the pride I felt the day my (second) flying badge was awarded to me, and the smiles on my parents faces, at the end of the day it's just a badge.
I know what I can do/have done/will do because of the job I have, and I do not feel any less of a pilot because a guy wearing the same badge is doing what some on here are suggesting is a less demanding job.
If what is written here is to become gospel, should we be distinguishing between the wings awarded to the pilots of different aircraft types within the RAF? Should we have different wings for FJ,RW and ME pilots to distinguish between their capabilities or how hard they are working? (Sarcasm inbound I am sure)
If you are not enough of a person without a flying badge, you'll never be anything with it. Let it go.
P.S. As soon as the chicks in the bar realise they are talking to an RPAS pilot, they'll be off immediately in search of a rotary god anyway.
I know what I can do/have done/will do because of the job I have, and I do not feel any less of a pilot because a guy wearing the same badge is doing what some on here are suggesting is a less demanding job.
If what is written here is to become gospel, should we be distinguishing between the wings awarded to the pilots of different aircraft types within the RAF? Should we have different wings for FJ,RW and ME pilots to distinguish between their capabilities or how hard they are working? (Sarcasm inbound I am sure)
If you are not enough of a person without a flying badge, you'll never be anything with it. Let it go.
P.S. As soon as the chicks in the bar realise they are talking to an RPAS pilot, they'll be off immediately in search of a rotary god anyway.
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"P.S. As soon as the chicks in the bar realise they are talking to an RPAS pilot, they'll be off immediately in search of a rotary god anyway."
Very good.
Very good.
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Will it not further erode pilot numbers?
As you would have a cache of trained pilots on a ground tour as such, replace those with a cheaper to train singular skilled alternative and you lose the buffer you have in the system?
As you would have a cache of trained pilots on a ground tour as such, replace those with a cheaper to train singular skilled alternative and you lose the buffer you have in the system?
Last edited by NutLoose; 4th Apr 2013 at 08:45.
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A few people here missing the point i think... I suspect there is a clear divide in opinion between those who have been through a flying training system and those who have not. Get all past and present RAF pilots/aircrew in one hangar and see what the vote would be on whether people that don't even leave the ground get to wear wings pr any other established flying brevet.
Again, RPAS operators have been through a difficult training system and have a serious and important job. They deserve credit and SHOULD wear a badge that is theirs and displays membership of their own unique club. But why not a new and hard earned RPAS badge. 'Amending' the pilots brevet in my opinion is disrespecting its history.
A few people on here making comments about the job being similar clearly think being a pilot involves just pushing buttons and letting weapons go....
Out of interest, how many RPAS operators do we have? Wasn't there a trial 4-5 years ago to put non-aircrew through the system and see how they did? How long is the RPAS training system?
Again, RPAS operators have been through a difficult training system and have a serious and important job. They deserve credit and SHOULD wear a badge that is theirs and displays membership of their own unique club. But why not a new and hard earned RPAS badge. 'Amending' the pilots brevet in my opinion is disrespecting its history.
A few people on here making comments about the job being similar clearly think being a pilot involves just pushing buttons and letting weapons go....
Out of interest, how many RPAS operators do we have? Wasn't there a trial 4-5 years ago to put non-aircrew through the system and see how they did? How long is the RPAS training system?
Gosh, this has all got terribly repetitive. Ignoring my earlier flippant comment, I never achieved my two wings as to be honest, I was a rather crap pilot. I got my nav brevet but despite that, I was stilled ticked-off that I never made it in the front. That was my personal feeling about myself and not in any way judgement of my fellow navs.
These guys have worked hard for their wings but they know they're not fully fledged members of the two-winged master race; their wings have a a blue laurel. So what if non-flyers mistake them as such - what difference does it make to any of you who decry their achievements? We're all on the same side; we all contribute in our own ways; forget the vitriol and just be bloody happy for once!
It's not as if the RAF is even a shadow of its heyday of the 80s and before after all!
These guys have worked hard for their wings but they know they're not fully fledged members of the two-winged master race; their wings have a a blue laurel. So what if non-flyers mistake them as such - what difference does it make to any of you who decry their achievements? We're all on the same side; we all contribute in our own ways; forget the vitriol and just be bloody happy for once!
It's not as if the RAF is even a shadow of its heyday of the 80s and before after all!
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perhaps the standard nav type brevet might have been more appropriate? After all, there are plenty of nav captains and/or directors of warfare about who have also led complex air ops on other aircraft (nimrod/GR4/AWACS for example) and let's face it the RPAS 'pilots' are just cutting out the middle man.. which many navs have either done or tried for years..! Oh and the Queen has just got a BAFTA for Skyfall....
Jacko,
... have you, or any of the other posters denigrating the achievements of the Daedalus trial guys done both jobs? How can you qualify the assertion that they're not similar?
A few people on here making comments about the job being similar clearly think being a pilot involves just pushing buttons and letting weapons go....
Duplo
Some of the Airships looked at that option. The problem is, these guys are de facto pilots under the requirements of ICAO to fly in International Airspace under effectively IFR - so they needed to be badged as pilots or it would look at bit odd.
Make sense?
LJ
perhaps the standard nav type brevet might have been more appropriate? After all, there are plenty of nav captains and/or directors of warfare about who have also led complex air ops on other aircraft (nimrod/GR4/AWACS for example) and let's face it the RPAS 'pilots' are just cutting out the middle man..
Make sense?
LJ
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Thanks LJ that is the first good reason given on this thread.
Much of the thread has been quite worrying, either because it suggested there was no real reason or that the RAF was making it up (and doing quite poorly). E.g: They need to be pilots for captaincy and dropping weapons or because they need SA, what rubbish!
Much of the thread has been quite worrying, either because it suggested there was no real reason or that the RAF was making it up (and doing quite poorly). E.g: They need to be pilots for captaincy and dropping weapons or because they need SA, what rubbish!
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1.3 Some of the following are terms used by the UK Military as defined in the Military Aviation Authority (MAA) Regulatory Publications (MRP). These terms (identified by an asterisk *) are not necessarily applicable to UAS that are subject to civil regulations.
NOTE: The terms ‘pilot’ and 'Remote Pilot' are being increasingly used worldwide (including ICAO) to describe the person who directly controls an unmanned aircraft and that trend is reflected in this document. It should be noted, however, that within the United Kingdom there are many legal requirements in the Air Navigation Order 2009 applicable to ‘pilots’. These references, however, apply only to pilots in the traditional sense – i.e. persons on board and flying the aircraft. There are at present no legal requirements setting out the qualifications needed to control an unmanned aircraft; this work is still to be completed.
NOTE: The terms ‘pilot’ and 'Remote Pilot' are being increasingly used worldwide (including ICAO) to describe the person who directly controls an unmanned aircraft and that trend is reflected in this document. It should be noted, however, that within the United Kingdom there are many legal requirements in the Air Navigation Order 2009 applicable to ‘pilots’. These references, however, apply only to pilots in the traditional sense – i.e. persons on board and flying the aircraft. There are at present no legal requirements setting out the qualifications needed to control an unmanned aircraft; this work is still to be completed.
LJ
Makes sense? Sort of, but not entirely. There are plenty of pilot type badges out there that the RAF did not need to denigrate the current real* pilot flying badge in such a way.
* - real as in
Makes sense? Sort of, but not entirely. There are plenty of pilot type badges out there that the RAF did not need to denigrate the current real* pilot flying badge in such a way.
* - real as in
pilots in the traditional sense – i.e. persons on board and flying the aircraft.
Thread Starter
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A topic/decision that will guarantee to polarise views and opinion for a little while to come I feel.
Looking at it pragmatically the Service has moved on and evolved considerably over the last 90 years ... and will continue to do so going forward. We now have the technology to deliver surveillance and ordinance remotely ... and as LJ rightly points out the crews flying these missions do so under IFR conditions ... the only real difference is the relative height of their backsides.
I'm sure it was no coincidence that the announcement was timed with the 90th Birthday of the RAF. Let's embrace the change ... GOK how much (lots) ribbing these guys are going to get in the Mess at some point
On a lighter note ... perhaps a rich recruiting source here
Virtual Red Arrows
Ironic they too are recruiting ... if any Top Brass read this ... NO Sir's we don't want an RPAS Formation Team
Coff.
Looking at it pragmatically the Service has moved on and evolved considerably over the last 90 years ... and will continue to do so going forward. We now have the technology to deliver surveillance and ordinance remotely ... and as LJ rightly points out the crews flying these missions do so under IFR conditions ... the only real difference is the relative height of their backsides.
I'm sure it was no coincidence that the announcement was timed with the 90th Birthday of the RAF. Let's embrace the change ... GOK how much (lots) ribbing these guys are going to get in the Mess at some point
On a lighter note ... perhaps a rich recruiting source here
Virtual Red Arrows
Ironic they too are recruiting ... if any Top Brass read this ... NO Sir's we don't want an RPAS Formation Team
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 5th Apr 2013 at 07:56.
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Roland
I am assuming that you are using the common meaning of 'denigrate' (and yes, I did have to look it up!) which is to insult or defame.
Does the award of RPAS wings to some very hard-working and capable colleagues, or as I should say fellow aviators, really insult the holders of the traditional pilot flying badge?
I assume by your reaction that you are a 'real' pilot?
There are plenty of pilot type badges out there that the RAF did not need to denigrate the current real* pilot flying badge in such a way.
Does the award of RPAS wings to some very hard-working and capable colleagues, or as I should say fellow aviators, really insult the holders of the traditional pilot flying badge?
I assume by your reaction that you are a 'real' pilot?