Ascoteers ?
Thread Starter
Ascoteers ?
Notwithstanding a previous post by Salad Dodger re the trivial threads being posted on this Mil forum, and also the fact that despite logging around 5000 hours of flying in RAF C130's I was never classed as 'military aircrew', I will post this and hope the moderators see it for what it is, a genuine search for knowledge.
I started my time in the RAF at Colerne as part of a Hercules Base 3 servicing team, after several tours I ended up back on 'Albert' as a GE ( where the flying hours came from) and was well aware that our routes were given codes depending on the Mk of aircraft and destination ie: 4021 was a MK 1 aircraft on the Deci schedule via Wildenrath. A number beginning 5*** would dictate a Mk 3 (Stretch) being used. VC10 routes were 2****, Tristar 3****. At all times I was aware that the number was prefixed with the 'company call sign' ASCOT. And here lies the nub of the question. I was told by a Pilot of my acquaintance that the word is an acronym of Air Support Command Operational Tasking. He also told me that local trainers from Lyneham, Brize etc should not be prefixed with ASCOT if it was not a 'route' trip. I have certainly been on trips to Newcastle from Lyneham where the call sign ASCOT 943 was used. I wonder if anyone can help with the following:
What is the validity in the claim that the ASCOT call sign was derived as above ?
Are there any other Royal Air Force call signs which have a similar historical precedent ?
I apologise to Salad Dodger if my question infringes his feelings of correctness in proffering content to this 'community'. It may well be that way back in the past this particular subject has been well and truly dealt with. I'm just very curious, and old enough to find it interesting.
Smudge
I started my time in the RAF at Colerne as part of a Hercules Base 3 servicing team, after several tours I ended up back on 'Albert' as a GE ( where the flying hours came from) and was well aware that our routes were given codes depending on the Mk of aircraft and destination ie: 4021 was a MK 1 aircraft on the Deci schedule via Wildenrath. A number beginning 5*** would dictate a Mk 3 (Stretch) being used. VC10 routes were 2****, Tristar 3****. At all times I was aware that the number was prefixed with the 'company call sign' ASCOT. And here lies the nub of the question. I was told by a Pilot of my acquaintance that the word is an acronym of Air Support Command Operational Tasking. He also told me that local trainers from Lyneham, Brize etc should not be prefixed with ASCOT if it was not a 'route' trip. I have certainly been on trips to Newcastle from Lyneham where the call sign ASCOT 943 was used. I wonder if anyone can help with the following:
What is the validity in the claim that the ASCOT call sign was derived as above ?
Are there any other Royal Air Force call signs which have a similar historical precedent ?
I apologise to Salad Dodger if my question infringes his feelings of correctness in proffering content to this 'community'. It may well be that way back in the past this particular subject has been well and truly dealt with. I'm just very curious, and old enough to find it interesting.
Smudge
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You don't have to apologise for posing questions in here.
If anyone else thinks they are trivial or "unworthy", they don't have to spend any time on them.
If anyone else thinks they are trivial or "unworthy", they don't have to spend any time on them.
Thread Starter
Wholigan
Thanks for that. I just felt a bit 'awkward' after S-D had his rant earlier. Like you I believe if you think it's trivia etc, ignore it
I would love to know where ASCOT comes from though
Smudge
Thanks for that. I just felt a bit 'awkward' after S-D had his rant earlier. Like you I believe if you think it's trivia etc, ignore it
I would love to know where ASCOT comes from thoughSmudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 16th Mar 2013 at 19:56.
The call-sign ASCOT was the invention of Basil D'Olivera boss of 216 Sqn when they operated the VIP Comets at Lyneham. It did stand for Air Support Command Operational Transport. One of the unforeseen problems with this call-sign is that it also meant Shut-Up in Arabic ("Ooskoot")
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Whopity many thanks for the confirmation. Although I am now seriously concerned that something I was taught on basic AATC course in 76 is still there. I really need to get out more I feel !
Don't apologise. Anyone who has spent 5,000 hours down the back of a Hercules can ask what he likes, as far as I'm concerned.
About 100 (or that's what it felt like) transiting to Masirah for crew positioning was quite enough for me
About 100 (or that's what it felt like) transiting to Masirah for crew positioning was quite enough for me
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 16th Mar 2013 at 22:13.
I've little doubt that Wg Cdr D'Oliveira had a hand in the derivation of the ASCOT callsign, but I suspect that he was by then on the staff at Upavon, at the time when Transport Command became Air Support Command (1 August 1967). Significantly, this was also the period during which management comms for the Air Transport Force were brought up to date, and the Flight Watch system was introduced. This involved HQ ASC buying into contracts with global civilian signals agencies and, as a consequence, the Command had to apply to ICAO to register a company callsign, ASCOT, together with a two-letter designator, RR.
And for what it's worth, my recollection was that the T stood for Task. Also, whatever happens now, to begin with and for many years afterwards, the ASCOT callsign would only have been used with a 4-digit task number issued via Upavon.
Before all this, we used the RAFAIR MABCD type of callsign for route tasks, but that's all a long time ago now!
And for what it's worth, my recollection was that the T stood for Task. Also, whatever happens now, to begin with and for many years afterwards, the ASCOT callsign would only have been used with a 4-digit task number issued via Upavon.
Before all this, we used the RAFAIR MABCD type of callsign for route tasks, but that's all a long time ago now!
Thread Starter
Well, ICM, that seems pretty definitive. And it seems my original informant was pretty well correct. My interest in all this derives from wondering if there was any follow on ( for want of better words) from the sort of call signs individual fighter squadrons had during WW2. Having noted previously that the AT fleet seem to have adopted ASCOT as their call sign, do Bomber/Fighter/MPA squadrons use individual or a similar type prefix for their relevant squadrons?
Ksimboy.
You were the only Loadie who woke me up, half way across the pond, to make the Eng a cup of tea, because I belonged to a similar trade. Bless you, and the galley was near the front of the aircraft. My hammock was over the ramp
Smudge
Ksimboy.
You were the only Loadie who woke me up, half way across the pond, to make the Eng a cup of tea, because I belonged to a similar trade. Bless you, and the galley was near the front of the aircraft. My hammock was over the ramp
Smudge
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Smudge, the eng was traditionally the other Baldrick on the crew , sat in middle of two driver fellas with those little clock things in front of him? You must remember I was rarely allowed up where the windows were lol.
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I'm most certainly not an Ascoteer, being Army, but I worked with a lot of Master Aircrew, commisssioned NCA and the odd naughty-boy nav at Upavon for HQ 1Gp MAOTs. One thing I remember is being told it stood for "Air Support Command Overseas Transport". That would seem to tie in with the assertion that UK jobs didn't count.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but that's what the old & bold (and the odd stupid boy) told me. Two in particular stand out. An absolute dinosaur with the initials JM who was ex-Andovers before going rotary, and another ex-Herc guy, Williams of Wales. They both waxed lyrical about their days as Ascoteers. But then again it was 20years ago, and I was but a NIG.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but that's what the old & bold (and the odd stupid boy) told me. Two in particular stand out. An absolute dinosaur with the initials JM who was ex-Andovers before going rotary, and another ex-Herc guy, Williams of Wales. They both waxed lyrical about their days as Ascoteers. But then again it was 20years ago, and I was but a NIG.
''Don't apologise. Anyone who has spent 5,000 hours down the back of a Hercules can ask what he likes, as far as I'm concerned.''
But the reply had better be loud!
"Pardon?"
But the reply had better be loud!
"Pardon?"
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2500 hrs on Albert.
AFAIR ASCOT stood for Air Support Command Operational Tasking.
In my time on the mighty Herc, ASCOT callsigns (4xxx for a Mk1, 5xxx for a Mk3) were only ever used for a/c doing Routes.
UK Training tasks such as MCT/CPT used a LYE C/S.
UK Op Training tasks (such as a LL air drop) used a 5 character alpha-numeric.
AFAIR ASCOT stood for Air Support Command Operational Tasking.
In my time on the mighty Herc, ASCOT callsigns (4xxx for a Mk1, 5xxx for a Mk3) were only ever used for a/c doing Routes.
UK Training tasks such as MCT/CPT used a LYE C/S.
UK Op Training tasks (such as a LL air drop) used a 5 character alpha-numeric.
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I think you will find that the royal Flight Callsigns have historical significance. Not sure if they are classified so I won't name them. Especially as Charlie is in Saudi at the moment, don't want to hear Orf with his head!!!