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Operational flying in GW1

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Operational flying in GW1

Old 26th Jan 2013, 03:37
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AR1
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Operational flying in GW1

Question: Why hasn't there been more literature published by crew regarding operational flying in GW1?

Cheers! AR1
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 05:41
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Not being permitted to disclose information iaw the Official Secrets Act?
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 06:08
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Any particular article/book would likely be very limited in its scope as we all only had a little part to play in the overall op. Those higher up the food chain who had a grander perspective would lack the detail perhaps.

I have often wondered, however, why there haven't been more publications on a period that involved so many members of the armed forces and had repurcussions down the years for so many RAF.
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 08:34
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A. Still a residual feeling that our much vaunted under the radar airfield denial strategy turned out to be wrong

B. Not much for the fighter jockeys to do - carting ordnance around isn't sexy

Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 26th Jan 2013 at 08:34.
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 17:06
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When the 'boys' were streaming northbound over the border both in the air and on the ground, I had the good fortune to be heading South from Jubail at 480 kts.

That and medals for 'shopping in combat' don't make for great stories
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 00:01
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Heathrow Harry wrote

A. Still a residual feeling that our much vaunted under the radar airfield denial strategy turned out to be wrong
Why does this myth still persist? It wasn't just the RAF operating at low level and bombing airfields. Some of the USAF were down in the weeds for the first three days phase and that included B-52s attacking airfields.

The BUFF at War

See other links at following post.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ml#post7625348
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 00:15
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The question from that is.....did the JP233 attacks actually work? Did they acheive the purpose? (Irrespective of losses)
If you hadn't carried out those low level attacks, what other area denial weapons were there available in theatre that could have been delivered more safely?
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 01:17
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Didn't I read on a thread recently that the options were Durandel and JP233. For some reason I can not recall Durandel was not preferred (maybe the delivery aircraft F111's were needed elsewhere). I've read nothing that says JP233 didn't work at denying the Iraqi's the use of the runways targeted.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 01:41
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I heard at the time that the Iraqis were just pressure washing the area denial bomblets away then patching up any holes?


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Old 28th Jan 2013, 02:02
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There were i belive extremely well equipped bdr teams at these airfields which were to put it mildly vast. Whatever the reason they didn't come out to play in any great numbers so we reached a point where there was no reason to go back. But right or wrong tactics there still must be a story even at a collective level. Anything to counter the 4000 SAS we seemed to have deployed. ;-)
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 11:39
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GW1 and Strike Eagles

Agree about the lack of articles/books about GW1 UK Air activity, at least in public domain.

I did read a good book about Strike Eagles during the conflict and one chapter had a memorable line from one pilot:

"King Kong hanging off my nuts by steel wire would not drag me down to Low Level again"

I seem to recall there was a decent study of the RAF tactics and losses somewhere out there but I lost it in the mists of time. I'll go hunt.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 11:50
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Quite Interesting

Found this. Page 94 onwards is interesting. Actually it looks like most of it could be worth a lunchtime read.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...UK-seminar.pdf
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 12:25
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The question from that is.....did the JP233 attacks actually work? Did they achieve the purpose? (Irrespective of losses)
Only a single aircraft was shot down on a JP233 attack, and that several minutes after release.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 13:10
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Only a single aircraft was shot down on a JP233 attack, and that several minutes
after release.
That Tornado was being flown by a good friend of mine.

Are you sure it was shot down?
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 13:22
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Maybe I should have said 'lost', possibly shot down by triple A.

I knew the Nav.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 15:03
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If memory serves, it wasn't minutes after weapon release - more like seconds.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 15:27
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Was it a suspected AP dropout post cannister release? That would have been seconds.

IIRC Tallil was the home base for a Fire Fighting school hence they tried to clear the JP233 submunitions using their vehicles but I don't believe that occurred elsewhere.

And apart from the A-A kill whilst dispensing a pair of JP233, the airfields concerned virtually ceased flying after they were targetted. Now whether that was because they decided they couldn't take off or land or because they simply refused to as they were more than likely to be shot down I suspect we will never know.

There are some forum members on here who flew in those attacks and whilst the JP233 was not designed to go against the specific design of the Iraqi runways, from the reports I have read and photos I have seen, they provided a lot of disruption but the weapon failed to crater sufficiently well as one might have expected elsewhere.

Last edited by just another jocky; 28th Jan 2013 at 15:28.
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 15:50
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Some of the bones on the whole subject are in those RAF Museum doc articles, but not all of it and, not the meat, IMO.
A sad time for many.

OAP
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 16:27
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lets be generous and say the low level attacks were suspended due to the fact they became pointless as the IAF refused to fight.............

tho at the time I remember a lot of people thinking "Fairey Battle - again"
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Old 28th Jan 2013, 16:59
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Why risk assets with LL attacks with JP233 once the suprise was gone, when ML LGB ops were just as effective once a designator was in thearte.

Iraq BDR teams? Don't make me laugh.. I was out at Dharhan on the GR BDR teams, largest BDR job we did was due to a ML own goal. I remember talking with one of my snec's when repairing Delta Hotel, when this Saudi airman pitiches up to Bernie and says " You Sh*t metalworker? I sh*t metalworker", Bernies reply? " You propably are..."

Last edited by Alber Ratman; 28th Jan 2013 at 17:09.
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