Exploitation of Nazi Aerospace Technology by Britain
Thread Starter
Exploitation of Nazi Aerospace Technology by Britain
A friend of mine is writing a paper on the post-war exploitation of captured German technologies by the UK. Principally, he is looking at aircraft and powerplant designs and related weapons systems. He's looked up the usual sources (TNA, IWM) and spent a bit of time at AHB looking at Air Ministry Intelligence Summaries, but seems to be drawing a blank between the reporting of these technologies and them being adopted/developed/applied by the British aircraft industry.
It was quite clear that the US Government actively exploited aviation and missile technologies under programmes such as Op LUSTY and OP PAPERCLIP, but very little evidence of the same happening this side of the pond. Interestingly, the British Army captured a number of V2 (A4) missiles, complete with all the support vehicles and launch crews near Cuxhaven. In 1946, under OP BACKFIRE several of these were fired and appeared to operate sucessfully. But that was it. No British Ballistic Missile Programme - at least not for another 10-15 years, by which time it was too late for the UK to catch up. Perhaps the dire fiscal situation and lack of overseas funds after the war prevented greater exploitation and development?
Can any PPruners give him a steer on any good books? For example, was the crescent wing of the V-bomber inspired by German developments?
I've done a little bit of research into this - but teh internet is useless - all full of wierd (and anti-Semetic) conspiracy theories about NAZI UFOs etc.
It was quite clear that the US Government actively exploited aviation and missile technologies under programmes such as Op LUSTY and OP PAPERCLIP, but very little evidence of the same happening this side of the pond. Interestingly, the British Army captured a number of V2 (A4) missiles, complete with all the support vehicles and launch crews near Cuxhaven. In 1946, under OP BACKFIRE several of these were fired and appeared to operate sucessfully. But that was it. No British Ballistic Missile Programme - at least not for another 10-15 years, by which time it was too late for the UK to catch up. Perhaps the dire fiscal situation and lack of overseas funds after the war prevented greater exploitation and development?
Can any PPruners give him a steer on any good books? For example, was the crescent wing of the V-bomber inspired by German developments?
I've done a little bit of research into this - but teh internet is useless - all full of wierd (and anti-Semetic) conspiracy theories about NAZI UFOs etc.
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 22nd Jan 2013 at 11:29.
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From memory, 'Wings on my sleeve', by Cpt Eric 'Winkle' Brown has quite a bit of stuff about the various craft he flew during his time in Germany post WWII:
It may perhaps be a bit too detailed for what you are looking for, i.e. describing the actual flying and his experiences rather than the overall strategy for assimilation of German technology, but it's still a good read from the perspective of somebody who was there at the time.
Regards
James
It may perhaps be a bit too detailed for what you are looking for, i.e. describing the actual flying and his experiences rather than the overall strategy for assimilation of German technology, but it's still a good read from the perspective of somebody who was there at the time.
Regards
James
More bang for your buck
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Germany's Secret Weapons in World War II by Paul Wood and Roger Ford (Mar 2000) covers a lot of their jet aircraft
This might be useful as well:
BritishSecretProjects-Fighters&Bombers1935-1950
©AnthonyLeonardButtler,2004
This might be useful as well:
BritishSecretProjects-Fighters&Bombers1935-1950
©AnthonyLeonardButtler,2004
Thread Starter
I've seen quite detailed reports on the handling of captured aircraft - including the British Air Forces of Occupation report on disarmament, but the problem is trying to make a link with subsequent British aircraft and weapons designs. Bell Air Craft Corporation certainly exploited the variable geometry concept that Messerschmitt pioneered with the P1101 aircraft - but my colleague has not been able to make similar British comparisons.
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Thread Starter
I'm afraid Luft46 is a bit of a 'what if?' site with very little fact to back up some of the rather fanciful designs. However, designs like the 1107 do look remarkably like some British post-war designs...but most were never more than sketches to keep General Kammler and Himmler - if not Hitler - in a fully delusional state.
Jollygreengiant64,
Yeah, ending up with the second largest aerospace industry on the face of the planet is a REAL kick in the teeth...
Jeez.
Yeah, ending up with the second largest aerospace industry on the face of the planet is a REAL kick in the teeth...
Jeez.
T-Force: The Forgotten Heroes of 1945: The race for Nazi War Secrets, 1945 by Sean Longden ISBN: 1849012970 / 1-84901-297-0
Gives quite a good account of the British collection process. However I am at a loss to recall anything that methodically records subsequent exploitation of captured material. But you know that already.
Longden's book may provide a few pointers as it does name some of the German scientists brought to Britain for in depth interrogation and a further few who "chose" to remain here for a period afterwards. Linking those names to subsequent papers might provide clues for lines of enquiry.
I should be interested to read or hear the results of your friend's endeavours.
YS
Gives quite a good account of the British collection process. However I am at a loss to recall anything that methodically records subsequent exploitation of captured material. But you know that already.
Longden's book may provide a few pointers as it does name some of the German scientists brought to Britain for in depth interrogation and a further few who "chose" to remain here for a period afterwards. Linking those names to subsequent papers might provide clues for lines of enquiry.
I should be interested to read or hear the results of your friend's endeavours.
YS
Last edited by Yellow Sun; 22nd Jan 2013 at 15:25.
From interested reading over the years, it seems to me that the main conduit for technology transfer on the aviation side was through both the RAE and via technical papers and patents. Do not forget that private companies were in direct competition, even in wartime, I believe Bristol had to be coerced to help Napier sort out the sleeve problems with the Sabre. I am sure that wartime analysis of Axis technology was performed by some R&D departments as and when they saw the need or opportunity. Much information was also published in post-war BIOS and CIOS reports.
Overall, for your purposes, I think that some research about the RAE and its involvement in promoting different aviation technologies with the Government Ministry might be worth a thought? Cheers
OAP
Overall, for your purposes, I think that some research about the RAE and its involvement in promoting different aviation technologies with the Government Ministry might be worth a thought? Cheers
OAP
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The RAE was certainly a key player. A team was sent to Germany to dismantle and bring back wind tunnels (Operation SURGEON, I think) and some German scientists were employed in the research establishments - certainly Dietrich Kuecheman worked in Aero Dept at Farnborough. His name is linked to the "carrots" designed to reduce drag on the Victor, and he apparently had a lot of involvement in deciding the planform of Concorde's wing.
I thought I read somewhere that while the US mostly got the aviation technology the UK got the Hydrogen Peroxide tech, which could have lead to air independent propulsion for submarines but look at the Kursk for the issues with that. And possibly the only satellite launch vehicle powered by hairdressing products...
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Track Winkle down
Winkle (Capt Eric) Brown RN must be the expert. Track him down though John Farley on here. you will find him most useful. he has written many books on the topic. including some referenced in other posts in this thread. His latest on M52 (mixed reviews but I read it having heard him speak about it at LSAB- the RAeS particularly slated it) That a/c was not dependant upon German aerodynamics or powerplant. If you get chance to visit Washington you must take in the Smithsonian at the Airport. They refer to the collection as the Hangar. lots of 50s stuff clearly from the German stable but mainly rocketry and guided weapons.
Interested to see you findings posted on here.
Interested to see you findings posted on here.