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Long Range SAR

Old 19th Dec 2012, 00:55
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dalek, the Portuguese Air Force provide SAR cover from Lajes with EH101 and C-295!
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 10:02
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Re lajes - good to hear they've upgraded. About 10 years ago, the only permanent SAR asset was a Skyvan or similar which had VERY limited range and capability - I know 'cos I spoke to the crew about what they could offer.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 10:46
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I hear Kermit Weeks has a Sunderland close to being air / seaworthy, perhaps if we asked him nicely he would lease it to us!
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 10:50
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ShinMaywa US-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 12:16
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We had a jumper on our cruise ship on a transatlantic. Sea conditions were favourable and there would have been a good chance of a successful search by LRMPA. The idiot was very lucky to be found, in the pitch dark, by one of our fast rescue craft.

Had we not found him then an aircraft search would have been essential for quickly covering a large area.

As for ASRA, the AEW Shacks also carried ASR although I don't think it was ever used but I am sure a downed F4 crew would have been pleased to see it. On Nimrod there were occasions when all ASR and life rafts were dropped and were essential to survival pending rescue. The Nimrod was also better as a search platform than a Sea King which could then maximise its endurance for rescue.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 12:48
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I don't have many problems with most things said here.
Tourist.
An MPA based only on SAR would not be cost effective. An MPA that could not, as one of its (many) roles, provide, Search, Rescue Co-ordintion and ASRA/ Supply drop would also have diminished capabilities.

The main point I am raising is that there is no Long Range MPA in the foreseable pipeline.

Those of you who dismiss the capability of a C130 do carry out credible Long Range SAR are just plain wrong. It does this job for many militaries all over the world.

I think the main point raised by HAS 59 was not his concern about the ability of the Airframe or the crews. It is just that we do not have the Frames, the Hours and the Spare Capacity it would take to provide the adequate Training and Operational resources.

After Afghanistan, that could change.
There is at the moment great pressure to scrap the J (lack of planned funding), before the end of its Operational Life.

Its main supporters are the Special Forces who can't see the point of taking small groups of men into dangerous situations in very large expensive A340's.

By 2016 we may well have spare J's, crews and hours and still no MPA aircraft on the horizon.

This would then become a Secondary Role to SF.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 12:50
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And one that didn't!

Quote:
M.V. Dara was a British Indian Steam Navigation Company liner, built in 1948, Barclay, Curle and Co; 5,030 tons 398.7 x 54.8; 14 knots; oil engines.

Dara mostly travelled between the Arabian Gulf and the Indian continent, carrying expatriate passengers who had employment in the Gulf States. She had accomodation for 20 1st Class, 54 2nd Class and 1377 deck passengers.


A bomb exploded on board, while off the coast of Dubai, on the 8th April 1961 which caused the vessel to eventually sink. It was never clearly established who planted the bomb, or why, but there was a high loss of life attributed to the incident, despite the fact that no one was on board when it sank. At the time, it was the worst peace time disasters on the high seas, second to the Titanic. There is some conjecture that, due to the circumstances, the perpetrator of the crime may also have been on board at the time of the explosion. Captained by Charles Elson, there was a total of 819 on board, including 19 officers and 113 crew; 238 died from burns or drowning.
Quote:
RAF Search and Rescue: -

The following message was left in the guest book by Jack Frith on the 21/10/04. He has kindly agreed for me to repeat the message here, (thanks Jack).

I was the captain of the Search and Rescue Shackleton that was sent from Aden to search for and aid the Dara. The photograph that you are using was taken by one of my crew from the beam position on the aircraft when we arrived on scene. I dropped a Lindholm rescue gear (contained a dingy, food, water etc) to what appeared to be some surviviors in the water but since no effort was made to reach the gear it had to be assumed that we were too late. Seems a long time ago now.[
and your point is? You said ASRA gear hardly ever saved anyone - I was just giving a good example where I know for sure it did!! I could reel off loads of incidents where it wasn't dropped or if they were dead, it wasn't going to bring them back to life!! Fact is, it is a life saver if you can deliver it in the right place at the right time. Without a suitable platform to deliver it... there's NO chance for those in the water.

(And its not just about 'droning' around for hours and doing it automatically. Until you've spent hours doing a visual search for a dinghy or body, you have no idea just how hard it is to spot them!)
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 12:58
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Pontious

"The Nimrod was also better as a search platform than a Sea King which could then maximise its endurance for rescue."

Whilst often the case, this is not by any means always true. If the cloudbase is 50 ft, then a seaking is vastly superior.

The big plus of the Nimrod on a long ranger from our point of view was always the fact that the search could be done before we got there rather than it could be done better.
That and of course it was always nice to have someone above in comms if we went in.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:18
  #29 (permalink)  
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insert usually or mainly or any other modifier.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 01:58
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Originally Posted by dalek
Those of you who dismiss the capability of a C130 do carry out credible Long Range SAR are just plain wrong. It does this job for many militaries all over the world.
The US Coast Guard agrees with dalek...

HC-130H/J: C-37A : Platforms : CG-711
Overview:

The C-130H is a mainstay of the United States Coast Guard air fleet.
From The Shield of Freedom, 2006: The Coast Guard's fleet currently includes five HC-130H (1500 series), 22 HC-130H-7 (1700 series), and six HC-130J models of the famous Hercules, widely recognized as the West's premier military transport.

The Coast Guard's history with the "Herc" dates to 1958, when it first ordered the R8V-1G (HC-130B) model, (now retired.) The configuration of these aircraft is suitable for a variety of missions.

The four-engine, high-wing aircraft can carry 92 passengers, although the usual number is 44, with 14 web seats and pallets with 15 airline-style seats each. The HC-130H can also carry 51,000 pounds of cargo, rescue, or oil-pollution-control equipment.

Operated by a crew of seven (7), the HC-130H can airdrop life rafts or dewatering pumps, or dispersant for oil pollution control.

Air Stations

Last edited by GreenKnight121; 20th Dec 2012 at 01:59.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 06:23
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C130 Search Rescue

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...e-in-gibraltar

Probably quite difficult to get a fix without an EO/IR unless this is one of the equipped ones.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 08:01
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A dedicated C-130 SAR platform would be fantastic but, I suspect, too expensive for the UK to maintain? UK Coastguard C-130 SAR? Where do I sign up?
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 09:22
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thunderbird7,

And if you got your dream, but were based at Kodiak...?
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 11:19
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Well, Kinloss was similar...
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 18:21
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A future MPA might as well combine Search and support better Rescue..

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...ptmerlinII.jpg
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 23:39
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Hi all,
Just a point to note. The Irish Air Corps CN-235M's carryout maritime patrols seven days a week and are equipped with a raft launcher carrying four, ten man rafts should the mission become a SAR top cover job. So your not alone out there

BW
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 07:35
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BW,

Appreciated.

However, can the IAC CN-235 physically get out as far as 4505N 02955W, and if it could, would it ever actually be made available to assist the UK if it were requested to go that far?

I suspect the answer to both of those questions would be no!

Last edited by Biggus; 22nd Dec 2012 at 07:36.
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 09:02
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how many requests for assistance are made way out in the Atlantic over say the last 20 years?

Just asking.....................
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 09:27
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HH,

I don't have exact numbers, but the MR2 certainly flew one during its final few months in service all the way out to 26W looking for a vessel that the Canadians thought they had heard call a mayday. Satellite info was inconclusive (single hit) so we launched as fear was vessel may have sunk.

Turns out we didn't find anything of note, but that was because the vessel in distress was in the southern and not the northern hemisphere. Mayday call was so weak it was difficult to make out the latitude clearly enough.

During my time on the kipper fleet, there were probably about half a dozen a year on average that extended beyond 15W although I'm sure the ARCC will have accurate info if you ask them nicely?
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 09:34
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HH

I am sure someone has access to the figures but over the life of the Nimrod the requests for assistance have been in the hundreds rather than tens.

Even when the accident is within range of a helicopter there is great benefit when an aircraft of long endurance can act as co-ordinator.

I was at Kinloss in 1979 when the Fasnet disaster struck. Ther were twenty or more yachts all in danger of sinking. They were within range of the SAR choppers, but covering a large area of ocean. It was the Nimrods co-ordinating Heli, Naval and Merchant efforts that saved many lives.
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