Apache could be scrapped
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Apache could be scrapped
Britain’s Apache gunships have been in use since 2001, seeing action in Afghanistan - where current pilots include Prince Harry - and in Libya.
Despite the helicopters’ successes on the frontline, defence sources suggested that the Army Air Corps fleet of 66 Apaches could eventually be cut to around 50 aircraft fit for operations.
Britain’s American-made AH-64D helicopters face becoming redundant because the US has decided to stop using the AH-64D model and adopt a newer variant, the AH-64E.That means essential technical support for the British Apache fleet will be withdrawn from 2017.
Despite the helicopters’ successes on the frontline, defence sources suggested that the Army Air Corps fleet of 66 Apaches could eventually be cut to around 50 aircraft fit for operations.
Britain’s American-made AH-64D helicopters face becoming redundant because the US has decided to stop using the AH-64D model and adopt a newer variant, the AH-64E.That means essential technical support for the British Apache fleet will be withdrawn from 2017.
Discuss
Discussed last night - http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...urely-not.html
Not surprising really as I hear the Australian Army is recruiting the pilots and paying them three times as much as they get in the UK!
So I guess there will be nobody left to fly them!!
So I guess there will be nobody left to fly them!!
Sounds like a Reporter knows naught of what he is talking about.....as usual!
Just because the US Army might go to a new Apache in due course does not mean that Boeing will stop supporting the D for other customers.
(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )
This story smells of fish.
(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )
This story smells of fish.
Just because the US Army might go to a new Apache in due course does not mean that Boeing will stop supporting the D for other customers.
(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )
This story smells of fish.
(Take a peak at the wide variety of models and variants that Sikorsky supports in the S-70 / Blackhawk / Seahawk series. )
This story smells of fish.
The Dutch saw this coming some years back and decided to upgrade their Block I Apaches to Block II for this reason. The UK too has known for a long time that this was coming, but has continually procrastinated on making any decision.
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I think Uncle Harry would fit right in.
But they would have to base a Tiger at Holsworthy so that he could enjoy the delights of Sydney.
But they would have to base a Tiger at Holsworthy so that he could enjoy the delights of Sydney.
:-)
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Sounds about right why do anything now while you can kick it into the long grass and then spend a lot more money or better yet lose your capability.
Last edited by eaglemmoomin; 5th Dec 2012 at 16:47.
melmo, I relaize fleet size disparity between US and UK fleets, and also the matters of numbers/scale on parts support.
Is your concern that the avionics and other accessory bits will go out of production due to demand being too low, and thus parts you need will simply become unavailable, or too expensive to afford?
I won't get into th econimics of whatever joint support agreements via primes and subs are extant, since I don't know what they are.
Isn't there a way for the UK to proceed ahead with the chosen configuration and press on, or is your general argument that it will be far too expensive to do that, from an Operations and Maintenance PoV, due to the comparatively small size of the fleet?
Is your concern that the avionics and other accessory bits will go out of production due to demand being too low, and thus parts you need will simply become unavailable, or too expensive to afford?
I won't get into th econimics of whatever joint support agreements via primes and subs are extant, since I don't know what they are.
Isn't there a way for the UK to proceed ahead with the chosen configuration and press on, or is your general argument that it will be far too expensive to do that, from an Operations and Maintenance PoV, due to the comparatively small size of the fleet?
You've hit the nail on the head Loneworlf 50,
The UK's Apaches are going to suffer from serious obsolescence issues in the near future due todifficulties in sourcing many of the aircraft's line-replaceable units.
As technology progresses, these LRUs are simply no longer going to be procurable.
The main issue is with the aircraft's processing suites, which comprise a systems processor, weapons processor and a mission processor that are subject to Moore's Law - "computer memory is doubled every six months".
Therefore, the chip manufacturers have a very small window where the chips are viable before they stop making them. To try and counter this obsolescence Boeing engages in what the company terms 'last-time buy'. Under this initiative it sets about buying all of these chips as the manufacturers decide that they are no longer going to support them.
Even so, this is still a finite amount of chips, and they WILL run out!
To try and counter this, the MoD's unstated intention was to skip AH-64D Block II and go straight to Block III (now AH-64E), but that was before the economy went to hell in a hand basket. Who know what they can afford to do now?
The UK's Apaches are going to suffer from serious obsolescence issues in the near future due todifficulties in sourcing many of the aircraft's line-replaceable units.
As technology progresses, these LRUs are simply no longer going to be procurable.
The main issue is with the aircraft's processing suites, which comprise a systems processor, weapons processor and a mission processor that are subject to Moore's Law - "computer memory is doubled every six months".
Therefore, the chip manufacturers have a very small window where the chips are viable before they stop making them. To try and counter this obsolescence Boeing engages in what the company terms 'last-time buy'. Under this initiative it sets about buying all of these chips as the manufacturers decide that they are no longer going to support them.
Even so, this is still a finite amount of chips, and they WILL run out!
To try and counter this, the MoD's unstated intention was to skip AH-64D Block II and go straight to Block III (now AH-64E), but that was before the economy went to hell in a hand basket. Who know what they can afford to do now?
Chevvron
You are correct, Westland built 67 Apaches under license from Boeing.
You are correct, Westland built 67 Apaches under license from Boeing.
Thanks melmo, makes more sense to me now. 
Quite correct, Hilife. HeavyLift brought them over in the Belfast....
I remember when we brought the first one in and the General i/c Army Aviation was waiting to greet us....
I asked him what he wanted them for now that the USSR no longer existed as such! (as I recall they were designed to take out Russian Tanks on the North German Plain...)
I remember when we brought the first one in and the General i/c Army Aviation was waiting to greet us....
I asked him what he wanted them for now that the USSR no longer existed as such! (as I recall they were designed to take out Russian Tanks on the North German Plain...)
