Armed Forces Justice system falling apart
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Armed Forces Justice system falling apart
With Sgt Danny Nightingale's support gaining signatures fast approx 90,000 signatures
Release an Unfairly Jailed War Hero | Campaigns by You
The Service Complaints Commisioners Report.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...ce/service.pdf
And Reports of Kangaroo courts:-
Army discipline often equivalent to 'kangaroo courts' - Channel 4 News
I would imagine a complete overhaul of the Armed Forces Justice System is due, and examination of all criminal convictions fron summary hearings.
What a mess!
Release an Unfairly Jailed War Hero | Campaigns by You
The Service Complaints Commisioners Report.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...ce/service.pdf
And Reports of Kangaroo courts:-
Army discipline often equivalent to 'kangaroo courts' - Channel 4 News
I would imagine a complete overhaul of the Armed Forces Justice System is due, and examination of all criminal convictions fron summary hearings.
What a mess!
Very interesting, Avionic Toad.
Do you think that the service justice and discipline systems are falling apart because they were always flawed, or is it (as at least one MP claimed in the Sgt Nightingale adjournment debate) because the system has been damaged by the dreaded ECHR?
Do you think that the service justice and discipline systems are falling apart because they were always flawed, or is it (as at least one MP claimed in the Sgt Nightingale adjournment debate) because the system has been damaged by the dreaded ECHR?
Everything's been damaged by the dreaded ECHR. We can't even kick known terrorists out of the UK now. Clearly criminals' rights outweigh ours. It has probably never been a perfect system, but summary justice has often worked to everyone's benefit.
"Will you accept my award?" Yes, I'll take a fine and a week of restrictions instead of a formal punishment from a CM.
I can't beleive I'm sounding like I'm a supporter of the system. Maybe I think it could work if used properly and without prejudice.
Anyway, if Sgt N keeps his job, he'll have done well out of this, much better than a civil prosecution. I think.
"Will you accept my award?" Yes, I'll take a fine and a week of restrictions instead of a formal punishment from a CM.
I can't beleive I'm sounding like I'm a supporter of the system. Maybe I think it could work if used properly and without prejudice.
Anyway, if Sgt N keeps his job, he'll have done well out of this, much better than a civil prosecution. I think.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Thank goodness the average soldier isn't some testosterone laden adolescent, hell bent on a good night out with the assistance of many pints of beer, otherwise you might need a more robust system of discipline to keep them in check. Luckily the lads today finish needlework classes early to go and help old people cross the road (before getting an early night), they are the ones who need protecting from the injustices of brutish Army discipline. Thank God for the ECHR, hopefully they will also demand a complete ban on those nasty, shouty Sergeant-Major types as well.
Last edited by Two's in; 28th Nov 2012 at 17:24.
I cannot and do not comment on the case highlighted by the OP. What I do comment on though is the continual whittling away of the Powers of Subordinate Commanders, so that disciplinary matters that would have previously been handled swiftly and effectively at unit level betwixt alleged defaulter and officer i/c, personally known to each other, is now moved upwards to higher echelons and handled by apparatchiks who know no-one involved.
The Armed Forces are disciplined Services and can only function on a personal basis if we expect people to close with our enemies and defeat them in battle. Your "Boss" is not a "Boss" if he hasn't such powers over you to deal directly with you when you transgress. If he hasn't, he's simply another apparatchik in the CoC, and the Service is yet another bureaucracy. Is it?
The Armed Forces are disciplined Services and can only function on a personal basis if we expect people to close with our enemies and defeat them in battle. Your "Boss" is not a "Boss" if he hasn't such powers over you to deal directly with you when you transgress. If he hasn't, he's simply another apparatchik in the CoC, and the Service is yet another bureaucracy. Is it?
Thank goodness the average soldier isn't some testosterone laden adolescent, hell bent on a good night out with the assistance of many pints of beer, otherwise you might need a more robust system of discipline to keep them in check. Luckily the lads today finish needlework classes early to go and help old people cross the road (before getting an early night), they are the ones who need protecting from the injustices of brutish Army discipline. Thank God for the ECHR, hopefully they will also demand a complete ban on those nasty, shouty Sergeant-Major types as well.
Have some sentencing powers (and I don't mean fines) not been increased under AFA 2006/2011?
Are today's soldiers really more "hell bent on a good night with the assistance of many pints of beer" than their Cold War predecessors?
Which particular Article of the ECHR is against "nasty, shouty Sergeant-major types" or military discipline in general?
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Army.
What general guidelines are followed regarding the setting of the level of a financial charge for a minor administrative or discipline issue?
Or is it just up to the Old Man to decide the level of punishment?
What general guidelines are followed regarding the setting of the level of a financial charge for a minor administrative or discipline issue?
Or is it just up to the Old Man to decide the level of punishment?
Army.
What general guidelines are followed regarding the setting of the level of a financial charge for a minor administrative or discipline issue?
Or is it just up to the Old Man to decide the level of punishment?
What general guidelines are followed regarding the setting of the level of a financial charge for a minor administrative or discipline issue?
Or is it just up to the Old Man to decide the level of punishment?
MSL Vol 1 S2 Chapter 14 - The summary hearing sentencing guide PDF [1.3 MB]
I would have considerably more sympathy for Sgt Nightingale were it not for the fact that a very large amount of ammunition, clearly acquired over a significant length of time, was also found in his property.
He has got off bloody lightly in my view, and if you look at ARRSE, the general opinion seems to be that he deserves to be in prison for carrying out several criminal acts. Anyone else would right now be serving a minimum five year sentence.
He has got off bloody lightly in my view, and if you look at ARRSE, the general opinion seems to be that he deserves to be in prison for carrying out several criminal acts. Anyone else would right now be serving a minimum five year sentence.
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Baffman, very interesting, especially in light of Daems/Aems and assessment of errors or mistakes. It appears that certain "offences" which may have been unintended are punishable under the armed forces act 2006?
What redress would individuals have if the sums involved exceeded those set out in that document?
What redress would individuals have if the sums involved exceeded those set out in that document?
Last edited by VinRouge; 28th Nov 2012 at 21:06.
VinRouge, the service person can appeal to the Summary Appeal Court. There is also a review system, which covers various issues including the sentence being within the powers available, and its severity being commensurate with the offence proven. The Reviewing Officer can refer a case to the Summary Appeal Court irrespective of whether the service person has appealed.
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JimLad1
I would have considerably more sympathy for Sgt Nightingale were it not for
the fact that a very large amount of ammunition, clearly acquired over a
significant length of time, was also found in his property.
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If he is realeased early he and every one else knows his days within the SAS are over, he will have to be RTU and back in the normal army life style.
He will also be a marked man for any and or all nutters to have a pop at him or his family.
Sad but true. !!
He will also be a marked man for any and or all nutters to have a pop at him or his family.
Sad but true. !!
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The problem is that the politicians made unauthorised possession of guns & ammo an absolute offence - you commit it you get done, no excuses.
This has led to the jailing of people who found guns and handed them into the police and a widow who found her husband had hidden a handgun in the house. Since there is no allowance in the law ("without reasonable excuse" is usually written in) judges have no option but to find people guilty.
MPs are well aware of this but are too busy fiddling their expenses to do anything about it.
This has led to the jailing of people who found guns and handed them into the police and a widow who found her husband had hidden a handgun in the house. Since there is no allowance in the law ("without reasonable excuse" is usually written in) judges have no option but to find people guilty.
MPs are well aware of this but are too busy fiddling their expenses to do anything about it.
It alleges that these "proceedings are 'kangaroo courts' - biased and partisan tribunals bounding inexorably towards predetermined conclusions".
