Was this really the only way of dealing with this...?
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The self righteousness by some on here is disgusting.
Raid the homes of any of us that have been on Ops over the past 100 years or so and see what turns up.
Danny is a good man, and this is complete bollocks.
Raid the homes of any of us that have been on Ops over the past 100 years or so and see what turns up.
Danny is a good man, and this is complete bollocks.
I'm sure he is a good man, but he f^cked up. He could have taken the piece back to work at any time in the 24 months+ and declared it - no questions asked. If he wanted to keep it, there are plenty of people that could have decommisioned it, certificated it and then he could have mounted it on his lounge wall if he wanted to.
As for raiding "any of us who have been on Ops in the past 100 years" - feel free, you will find no firearms/explosives in my household. However, standby for a strongly worded note from my solicitor for compensation for the stress you put my family under - so you'd better have pretty good grounds for suspicion!
I suspect he will be out a lot quicker than the 18 month sentence, but maybe it will serve as a reminder to those that decide to do stuff like this "in the next 100 years" not to do it.
iRaven
As for raiding "any of us who have been on Ops in the past 100 years" - feel free, you will find no firearms/explosives in my household. However, standby for a strongly worded note from my solicitor for compensation for the stress you put my family under - so you'd better have pretty good grounds for suspicion!
I suspect he will be out a lot quicker than the 18 month sentence, but maybe it will serve as a reminder to those that decide to do stuff like this "in the next 100 years" not to do it.
iRaven
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Then a couple of years ago we had an old boy drove to our club to give a talk on WW2 commandoes. He brought some souvenirs with him, no pistol but any one of which could have got him a prison sentence:
A Fairbairn dagger, a knuckle duster and a spring loaded cosh!
Yes, there will be lots of souvenirs from recent wars as much must have slipped through.
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Juliet, enough of the outrage. There is no 'self rightiousness' merely pointing out that the law with regard to firearms is explicit and without flexibility. Under certain circumstances, I grant you, that law may seem to be counter productive.
Like iRaven I have been on Ops many times over the past 15 years and you won't find anything of that nature in my gaff. I did try to bring back a could of muskets from Iraq that had been left in the office by a previous incumbent but the bureaucracy simply couldn't be over come. I didn't then try to smuggle them back! Shame but there we go....
Like iRaven I have been on Ops many times over the past 15 years and you won't find anything of that nature in my gaff. I did try to bring back a could of muskets from Iraq that had been left in the office by a previous incumbent but the bureaucracy simply couldn't be over come. I didn't then try to smuggle them back! Shame but there we go....
iRaven - I agree. The rule are abundantly clear to all personnel going on ops - certainly for the 27 years I have been in uniform. There are ways and means to bring back items (ie offensive weapons) legitimately (qv) provided they are not covered under OP PLUNDER.*
* Mind you, I never forgave my father for handing in my Grandfather's Mk VI Webley from the Great War when my Grandmother died. It had spent a peaceful 55 years sitting in her top drawer!
* Mind you, I never forgave my father for handing in my Grandfather's Mk VI Webley from the Great War when my Grandmother died. It had spent a peaceful 55 years sitting in her top drawer!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
First 'Op' I went on included a Jungle Survival course. The staff were PEdO and PJIs. Apart from getting us to use the rudimentary treescape (watching the nylon cord melt before your eyes and 50 feet up), they had a recommended selection of 'must have' items such as a flint and steel, needle nose pincers, condoms, etc all, oddly enough available in the little shop in the coffee bar, they also recommended a .38 revolver, only £20.
I guess it was what is known as the Saturday Night Special in the States. I don't think any of us bought one but there it was - official recommendation and easy to acquire. How would that have stood up in UK later?
I guess it was what is known as the Saturday Night Special in the States. I don't think any of us bought one but there it was - official recommendation and easy to acquire. How would that have stood up in UK later?
For those who wish to listen....his wife Sally is being interviewed at some point on Radio 2 this afternoon between 12.00 and 14.00 (Mr Vines show)
Coley
Coley
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lets be generous and say he only wanted a "souvenir"
suppose some small child had come across it or he had been burgled - it wouldn't be too good
If we are ungenerous we have a man with an unlicenced firearm in the UK who think he might need it some day....... to kill someone
I suspect the court got it just about right - he was damned lucky he didn't finish up with the Met Fire Arms squad breaking down his door at 06:00 and shooting him
suppose some small child had come across it or he had been burgled - it wouldn't be too good
If we are ungenerous we have a man with an unlicenced firearm in the UK who think he might need it some day....... to kill someone
I suspect the court got it just about right - he was damned lucky he didn't finish up with the Met Fire Arms squad breaking down his door at 06:00 and shooting him
Just listened to the interview and to me this sounds like a right cock up from start to finish!
Its all well and good to use the "What if a child had found it" HH but that did not happen and by the sound of it could not have happened!
Someone I know was called to a neighbours house to help after the old chap had a suspected heart attack. He was astonished to see firearms from the second world war in the house. I believe they were all handed in for destruction and the case was not taken to court.
Surely this is what should have happened here? Just a little bit of commom sense and a word from his commanding officer should have done the trick!
Its all well and good to use the "What if a child had found it" HH but that did not happen and by the sound of it could not have happened!
Someone I know was called to a neighbours house to help after the old chap had a suspected heart attack. He was astonished to see firearms from the second world war in the house. I believe they were all handed in for destruction and the case was not taken to court.
Surely this is what should have happened here? Just a little bit of commom sense and a word from his commanding officer should have done the trick!
Last edited by newt; 13th Nov 2012 at 14:51.
Red On, Green On
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Looking at the timeline the Glock was sent to Hereford (Credenhill actually) in/shortly after November 2007, and then to the house he was sharing (no date given).
His memory loss occurred in 2009 during the trek in Brazil.
There is therefore all of 2008 and a part of 2009 (before the trek) when the Glock was in his care and he knew all about it. Someone sharp enough to hold his rank in the Regiment really ought to have taken more care. He could at least have asked the RSM or similar what to do with it even if he didn't know the rules (which I find surprising).
"But the judge did not believe that he had no recollection of being in possession of the weapon" - which makes perfect sense, in my opinion.
His memory loss occurred in 2009 during the trek in Brazil.
There is therefore all of 2008 and a part of 2009 (before the trek) when the Glock was in his care and he knew all about it. Someone sharp enough to hold his rank in the Regiment really ought to have taken more care. He could at least have asked the RSM or similar what to do with it even if he didn't know the rules (which I find surprising).
"But the judge did not believe that he had no recollection of being in possession of the weapon" - which makes perfect sense, in my opinion.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It is surely unsafe to assume he would have known something when he apparently does not know it now.
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It is surely unsafe to assume he would have known something when he
apparently does not know it now.
It's rather unfair passing the buck onto the arresting officer, for not using some discretion. It's a bit difficult offering words of advice, when the house has been raided and searched by a number of officers. We are not talking about a child having his catapult confiscated!
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si, there is no burden of proof required here in that respect. Firearms offences are absolute, that is, no defence or mitigation.
If you are in possession of an unlicenced firearm, you are guilty, period.
I'm not saying it's just, but thats the way it is. There have been cases where people have disarmed armed intruders, only to get done for possession themselves. Nuts.
If you are in possession of an unlicenced firearm, you are guilty, period.
I'm not saying it's just, but thats the way it is. There have been cases where people have disarmed armed intruders, only to get done for possession themselves. Nuts.
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I have heard many people disbelieve that anyone would not unpack their boxes and therefore discover the present left by a third party. I was fortunate enough to get a home posting recently (March) after several years of unaccompanied tours during which time I aquired pretty much two sets of everything. I have not unpacked a single box since parking them in my garage and amongst the logic behind this is that I have neither need nor room inside the house for the kit. Happily I packed my own boxes (so no surprises for me) but for the record, I find his story of not being aware the gun was in a box a believeable one. A civilian on the other hand probably would not understand this.
It is clear that the system had its hands tied on this one with regard to bringing him to court, but I still feel that some discretion would have been a fairer outcome and that a suspended prison sentence to be just. It is clearly wrong to treat this man as one would a Moss-side drug dealer tooled up with intent. Has the petition not been started yet; for you can of course force a House of Commons debate on the matter.
It is clear that the system had its hands tied on this one with regard to bringing him to court, but I still feel that some discretion would have been a fairer outcome and that a suspended prison sentence to be just. It is clearly wrong to treat this man as one would a Moss-side drug dealer tooled up with intent. Has the petition not been started yet; for you can of course force a House of Commons debate on the matter.