MAA MILITARY AIR SAFETY CONFERENCE
I've had counterfeit parts for Hueys and Jetbangers (millions of 'em made in Vietnam after their war) mainly made from Brass instead of Ally! All painted up well and good castings - non-magnetic, but too heavy.
Also found one 206BII Rotor Head with no Serial Number (optional extra?) All reported to civil authorities very quickly.
However, I've also seen many genuine parts installed well past their official lives have expired due to lack of control in military regimes. All "forgotten" very quickly...
Also found one 206BII Rotor Head with no Serial Number (optional extra?) All reported to civil authorities very quickly.
However, I've also seen many genuine parts installed well past their official lives have expired due to lack of control in military regimes. All "forgotten" very quickly...
Thread Starter
Back to the top!
I'm still hoping that someone with inside knowledge will turn up and ask very awkward questions.
The conference, by the way, is next week and is free to serving military.
I'm still hoping that someone with inside knowledge will turn up and ask very awkward questions.
The conference, by the way, is next week and is free to serving military.
C130 ESF
I remember my late father telling me that the ESF was removed entirely for financial reasons. I suppose that we should be grateful that we didn't pay extra for the removal.
I remember my late father telling me that the ESF was removed entirely for financial reasons. I suppose that we should be grateful that we didn't pay extra for the removal.
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MOD may well have paid
Vascodegama,
I do not know the history of ESF, but I would guess that that if ESF was "standard" MOD could well have paid to take it out. It was alleged that MOD had paid extra to have the standard fit radios taken out of the "plebs" staff cars in the 80s, and from first hand experience I remember that a "bright" contracting officer decided to save money by not fitting the rear speakers in the senior ranks staff cars - given that the VSP normally sat in the back this "incorrect" decision had to be put right by paying a lot extra to retrofit them - plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose - as we still see every day of the week with this and indeed previous governments!
I do not know the history of ESF, but I would guess that that if ESF was "standard" MOD could well have paid to take it out. It was alleged that MOD had paid extra to have the standard fit radios taken out of the "plebs" staff cars in the 80s, and from first hand experience I remember that a "bright" contracting officer decided to save money by not fitting the rear speakers in the senior ranks staff cars - given that the VSP normally sat in the back this "incorrect" decision had to be put right by paying a lot extra to retrofit them - plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose - as we still see every day of the week with this and indeed previous governments!
The C130K was not fitted with an ADR 'black box'. Almost certainly to save a few pence. Would surely have been a great help after the first crash of XV 180 at Fairford. Did they put one in the 'J' ? Oh and of course the FSII Saga !
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ESF is not an MAA / air safety issue. Thats operational risk not operating risk - a different safety case.
Last edited by Shell Management; 18th Oct 2012 at 15:00.
Shell
So what you're saying is the aircraft was not fit for purpose? We already know that and MoD eventually admitted it. I wish the deceased were still here to argue semantics with you.
So what you're saying is the aircraft was not fit for purpose? We already know that and MoD eventually admitted it. I wish the deceased were still here to argue semantics with you.
Am I right in saying the Hercules IPTL (a Group Captain?) claimed at the inquest he had nothing to do with fitness for purpose and didn't know how the RAF achieved it? What did he think? The squadron bought the necessary kit out of mess funds?
Rigga,
when I was on the HEART THE TERMS ADR and FDR were both in use across a variety of sources . You obviously knew what I meant, so can you contribute anything useful to the question?
when I was on the HEART THE TERMS ADR and FDR were both in use across a variety of sources . You obviously knew what I meant, so can you contribute anything useful to the question?
AA62,
I was only trying to clarify what you were taking about. I have dealt with civil aircraft for some years now. ADR - to me - means Air Data Recorder..a totally different thing.
My only dealing with similar systems in the military involved two (Mk1) Chinooks which were fitted with HODR in the 80s, (Helicopter On-board Data Recorder) but both proved hopeless as they relied on "bog standard" cassette tapes which sadly melted just when at least one was needed, but, instead of upgrading the system to a metal media "they" just scrapped the idea. Or that's how it seemed to me at the time. As far as I know there is still no FDR or CVR systems fitted to Chinooks, the one helicopter that is regulary described and the most inherently dangerous (not by me though).
I was only trying to clarify what you were taking about. I have dealt with civil aircraft for some years now. ADR - to me - means Air Data Recorder..a totally different thing.
My only dealing with similar systems in the military involved two (Mk1) Chinooks which were fitted with HODR in the 80s, (Helicopter On-board Data Recorder) but both proved hopeless as they relied on "bog standard" cassette tapes which sadly melted just when at least one was needed, but, instead of upgrading the system to a metal media "they" just scrapped the idea. Or that's how it seemed to me at the time. As far as I know there is still no FDR or CVR systems fitted to Chinooks, the one helicopter that is regulary described and the most inherently dangerous (not by me though).
PT:
As easy as granting an RTS to a known grossly unairworthy aircraft, because the Regulatory Authority, the Air Accident Investigator, and the Operator are still one and the same, ie the MOD including its subsidiaries. How many avoidable accidents and needless deaths will it take before this corrupt and incestuous trio is broken up into three entirely separate bodies that are truly independent of each other?
Those who are most affected by this scandal are those military aviators who are now serving. They have a unique opportunity to express their concern directly to the MAA/MAAIB at the RAeS on 24/25th October. They alone are offered free entrance to the conference. What was planned as a rubber stamp approval of the MAA could turn out to be anything but if its customers upset this self congratulatory jamboree. It doesn't need deep arcane knowledge to do that, for it is neither the time nor the place for long expositions. A general outbreak of audience dissatisfaction would say much about who the true professionals are, those selling the snake oil or those who refuse to buy it.
Self Regulation Does Not Work and in Aviation it Kills!
How would you provide a RTS on an ac with an ADC with no civil or military clearance?
Those who are most affected by this scandal are those military aviators who are now serving. They have a unique opportunity to express their concern directly to the MAA/MAAIB at the RAeS on 24/25th October. They alone are offered free entrance to the conference. What was planned as a rubber stamp approval of the MAA could turn out to be anything but if its customers upset this self congratulatory jamboree. It doesn't need deep arcane knowledge to do that, for it is neither the time nor the place for long expositions. A general outbreak of audience dissatisfaction would say much about who the true professionals are, those selling the snake oil or those who refuse to buy it.
Self Regulation Does Not Work and in Aviation it Kills!
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It's now sold out, so there'll be a couple of hundred people there. Recently added to the list of presenters is the incoming DG, MAA. Dress of the Day is No. 1s, so if someone does say something to make any of the top people spill their coffee, it'll be all over their second-best uniform...
Thread Starter
Well, the conference starts tomorrow. I hope someone has the b@lls to ask some very pointed and awkward questions of the senior RAF officers who are speaking. People, who clearly have detailed evidence of the MoD's historic and ongoing failings to assure airworthiness, have posted on this, and other, threads over many years.
There is certainly enough concern to make it essential that the MAA Conference should not be allowed to pass itself off as a self-congratulatory exercise, but I fear that will be the case.
There is certainly enough concern to make it essential that the MAA Conference should not be allowed to pass itself off as a self-congratulatory exercise, but I fear that will be the case.
A conference in No1s??? Are they trying to put people off?
I'm most interested in the opening speech by the RAeS, given the speaker has recently stated the subject (MAA, Haddon-Cave, airworthiness etc) is "no business" of his Society.
Last edited by tucumseh; 24th Oct 2012 at 06:37.
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I'm most interested in the opening speech by the RAeS, given the speaker has recently stated the subject (MAA, Haddon-Cave, airworthiness etc) is "no business" of his Society.
This would be the Chief Executive - an unelected appointee - of a Society "dedicated to the entire Aerospace community"? (my emphasis)