Camp Bastion attack
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Lt Col Otis Raible/Sgt Brad Atwell USMC (Harriers in Afghanistan)
A poignant comment received today.
Otis died while leading a counter attack to retake his flight line.
The Skipper’s jet was destroyed in the fighting, but the VMA had a couple of jets out of country, one of which was re-modexed overnight before returning to Bastion.
Otis leaves his wife Donella and three young children. The Memorial Service goes Monday 24 Sept at the MCAS Yuma Chapel. In a couple of weeks, Otis will fall-in at Arlington, date not yet determined.
With much respect and a heavy heart, ..................
Otis died while leading a counter attack to retake his flight line.
The Skipper’s jet was destroyed in the fighting, but the VMA had a couple of jets out of country, one of which was re-modexed overnight before returning to Bastion.
Otis leaves his wife Donella and three young children. The Memorial Service goes Monday 24 Sept at the MCAS Yuma Chapel. In a couple of weeks, Otis will fall-in at Arlington, date not yet determined.
With much respect and a heavy heart, ..................
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If you can wade through various levels of obscenity there's a fairly interesting (and at times very funny, at times completely out of line) thread on this attack on Arrse.
Obviously there's the undertone that one bit of the military which did a good/bad job is better/worse than the next which would have done a better/worse (delete as appropriate) job....to which we on pprune are not strangers.
The debate seems to have three major discussion points.
1. Whilst the re-attack appears to have been spirited, gallant and successful and the fight 'won' 14-2, the FP on the whole actually failed at the point that a re-attack became necessary. (To any k##bs who think I am having a pop at a particular unit or service - think again.)
2. The (quoted as 17km) fence line is too long for the FP assets available.
Can we perhaps debate the notion that whilst getting CAS assets up threat is great for sortie generation, reaction times etc then we may have a lesson here that the FP needs to be watertight if the tactic is adopted.
All players seem to agree - beyond the lessons and a certain amount of recrimination that the actions of the USMC CO and his boys were excellent.
Obviously there's the undertone that one bit of the military which did a good/bad job is better/worse than the next which would have done a better/worse (delete as appropriate) job....to which we on pprune are not strangers.
The debate seems to have three major discussion points.
1. Whilst the re-attack appears to have been spirited, gallant and successful and the fight 'won' 14-2, the FP on the whole actually failed at the point that a re-attack became necessary. (To any k##bs who think I am having a pop at a particular unit or service - think again.)
2. The (quoted as 17km) fence line is too long for the FP assets available.
Can we perhaps debate the notion that whilst getting CAS assets up threat is great for sortie generation, reaction times etc then we may have a lesson here that the FP needs to be watertight if the tactic is adopted.
All players seem to agree - beyond the lessons and a certain amount of recrimination that the actions of the USMC CO and his boys were excellent.
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Lt Col Otis Raible/Sgt Brad Atwell USMC (Harriers in Afghanistan) - (part 2)
This was sent to me by a retired USMC General who spent two years with the RAF on an exchange tour.
They say that he would walk the flight line every night to check on the crews and birds. When the attack happened he went after the bad guys only armed with his 9mm.
This is a true leader...not something taught at business school either. Here is his guidance to his pilots and it speaks volumes to the man he was.
Semper Fidelis
LtCol Raible's memo that he put out to his squadron.....
COMMANDER'S GUIDANCE FOR SQUADRON ATTACK PILOTS
1. Professional hunger. My goal is to identify those Officers who want to be professional attack pilots and dedicate the resources required to build them into the flight leaders and instructors that are required for the long-term health of our community. This is not a socialist organization. We will not all be equal in terms of quals and flight hours. Some will advance faster than others, and because this is not a union, your rate of advancement will have nothing to do with seniority. Your rate of advancement will instead be determined by your hunger, professionalism, work ethic, and performance. If flying jets and supporting Marines is your passion and your profession, you are in the right squadron. If these things are viewed simply as your job, please understand that I must invest for the future in others. Your time in a gun squadron might be limited, so it is up to you to make the most of the opportunities that are presented.
2. Professional focus. Our approach to aviation is based upon the absolute requirement to be "brilliant in the basics." Over the last few years Marine TACAIR has not punted the tactical nearly so often as the admin. Sound understanding of NATOPS, aircraft systems, and SOPs is therefore every bit as important as your understanding of the ANTTP and TOPGUN. With this in mind, ensure the admin portions of your plan are solid before you move onto objective area planning. Once you begin tactical planning, remember that keeping things "simple and easy to execute" will usually be your surest path to success. If the plan is not safe, it is not tactically sound.
3. Attitude. I firmly believe in the phrase "hire for attitude, train for skill." Work ethic, willingness to accept constructive criticism, and a professional approach to planning, briefing, and debriefing will get you 90% of the way towards any qualification or certification you are pursuing. The other 10% is comprised of in-flight judgment and performance, and that will often come as a result of the first 90%. Seek to learn from your own mistakes and the mistakes of others. Just as a championship football team debriefs their game film, we are going to analyze our tapes and conduct thorough flight debriefs. It has often been said that the success of a sortie is directly proportional to the caliber of the plan and brief. The other side of this coin is that the amount of learning that takes place as a result of a sortie is directly proportional to the caliber of the debrief.
4. Moral courage. Speak up if something seems wrong or unsafe. We all know what the standards are supposed to be in Naval Aviation and in the Corps. Enforce them! When we fail to enforce the existing standards, we are actually setting and enforcing a new standard that is lower.
5. Dedication. If you average one hour per workday studying, 6 months from now you will be brilliant. That is all it takes; one hour per day. As you start to notice the difference between yourself and those who are unable to find 60 minutes, I want you to know that I will have already taken note. Then, I want you to ask yourself this question: "How good could I be if I really gave this my all?"
6. When all else fades away, attack pilots have one mission: provide offensive air support for Marines. The Harrier community needs professional attack pilots who can meet this calling. It does not require you to abandon your family. It does not require you to work 16 hours per day, six days per week. It requires only a few simple commitments to meet this calling: be efficient with your time at work so that you can study one hour per day; be fully prepared for your sorties and get the maximum learning possible out of every debrief; have thick skin and be willing to take constructive criticism; find one weekend per month to go on cross country. When you are given the opportunity to advance, for those few days go to the mat and give it your all, 100%, at the expense of every other thing in your life. To quote Roger Staubach, "there are no traffic jams on the extra mile." If you can be efficient during the workweek, give an Olympian effort for check rides and certifications, and are a team player, the sky will literally be the limit for you in this squadron.
C. K. RAIBLE
They say that he would walk the flight line every night to check on the crews and birds. When the attack happened he went after the bad guys only armed with his 9mm.
This is a true leader...not something taught at business school either. Here is his guidance to his pilots and it speaks volumes to the man he was.
Semper Fidelis
LtCol Raible's memo that he put out to his squadron.....
COMMANDER'S GUIDANCE FOR SQUADRON ATTACK PILOTS
1. Professional hunger. My goal is to identify those Officers who want to be professional attack pilots and dedicate the resources required to build them into the flight leaders and instructors that are required for the long-term health of our community. This is not a socialist organization. We will not all be equal in terms of quals and flight hours. Some will advance faster than others, and because this is not a union, your rate of advancement will have nothing to do with seniority. Your rate of advancement will instead be determined by your hunger, professionalism, work ethic, and performance. If flying jets and supporting Marines is your passion and your profession, you are in the right squadron. If these things are viewed simply as your job, please understand that I must invest for the future in others. Your time in a gun squadron might be limited, so it is up to you to make the most of the opportunities that are presented.
2. Professional focus. Our approach to aviation is based upon the absolute requirement to be "brilliant in the basics." Over the last few years Marine TACAIR has not punted the tactical nearly so often as the admin. Sound understanding of NATOPS, aircraft systems, and SOPs is therefore every bit as important as your understanding of the ANTTP and TOPGUN. With this in mind, ensure the admin portions of your plan are solid before you move onto objective area planning. Once you begin tactical planning, remember that keeping things "simple and easy to execute" will usually be your surest path to success. If the plan is not safe, it is not tactically sound.
3. Attitude. I firmly believe in the phrase "hire for attitude, train for skill." Work ethic, willingness to accept constructive criticism, and a professional approach to planning, briefing, and debriefing will get you 90% of the way towards any qualification or certification you are pursuing. The other 10% is comprised of in-flight judgment and performance, and that will often come as a result of the first 90%. Seek to learn from your own mistakes and the mistakes of others. Just as a championship football team debriefs their game film, we are going to analyze our tapes and conduct thorough flight debriefs. It has often been said that the success of a sortie is directly proportional to the caliber of the plan and brief. The other side of this coin is that the amount of learning that takes place as a result of a sortie is directly proportional to the caliber of the debrief.
4. Moral courage. Speak up if something seems wrong or unsafe. We all know what the standards are supposed to be in Naval Aviation and in the Corps. Enforce them! When we fail to enforce the existing standards, we are actually setting and enforcing a new standard that is lower.
5. Dedication. If you average one hour per workday studying, 6 months from now you will be brilliant. That is all it takes; one hour per day. As you start to notice the difference between yourself and those who are unable to find 60 minutes, I want you to know that I will have already taken note. Then, I want you to ask yourself this question: "How good could I be if I really gave this my all?"
6. When all else fades away, attack pilots have one mission: provide offensive air support for Marines. The Harrier community needs professional attack pilots who can meet this calling. It does not require you to abandon your family. It does not require you to work 16 hours per day, six days per week. It requires only a few simple commitments to meet this calling: be efficient with your time at work so that you can study one hour per day; be fully prepared for your sorties and get the maximum learning possible out of every debrief; have thick skin and be willing to take constructive criticism; find one weekend per month to go on cross country. When you are given the opportunity to advance, for those few days go to the mat and give it your all, 100%, at the expense of every other thing in your life. To quote Roger Staubach, "there are no traffic jams on the extra mile." If you can be efficient during the workweek, give an Olympian effort for check rides and certifications, and are a team player, the sky will literally be the limit for you in this squadron.
C. K. RAIBLE
Last edited by rubberband2; 23rd Sep 2012 at 21:34.
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Taking a completely dispassionate view of this incident, when the SAS carried out an identical raid on Pebble Island, it went down in British military history as an outstanding piece of soldiering. Like it or not, this is the Taleban equivalent and will undoubtedly go down in insurgent military history as perhaps their finest piece of soldiering for a generation or more.
which is very nasty business - they used to execute those captured in WWII for such offences... and they have captured one insurgent in this instance...Cannot believe the pencil pushers decided to publicize that Harry was in country and where he was operating from (to try and score points post his Vegas antics) - they should really be held accountable
It appears the Colonel was a Leader not a Commander. Hand Salute!
Way too rare anymore!
Way too rare anymore!
Last edited by SASless; 23rd Sep 2012 at 14:50.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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rubberband2
Thank you.
I would hope those words would make their way into staff colleges various because as SASless said the man was a leader and not just a commander
I would hope those words would make their way into staff colleges various because as SASless said the man was a leader and not just a commander
So true.
WRT the views expressed earlier in this thread, I am interested - and disturbed - by this report:
China Officially Warns Japan Not To Infringe Its Territorial Sovereignty; Japan Reciprocates | ZeroHedge
"China's top security official on Saturday made a surprise visit to Afghanistan, the first time in 46 years that a Chinese leader set his foot on the soil of this landlocked Asian country."
- interesting times, indeed.
WRT the views expressed earlier in this thread, I am interested - and disturbed - by this report:
China Officially Warns Japan Not To Infringe Its Territorial Sovereignty; Japan Reciprocates | ZeroHedge
"China's top security official on Saturday made a surprise visit to Afghanistan, the first time in 46 years that a Chinese leader set his foot on the soil of this landlocked Asian country."
- interesting times, indeed.
China's top security official on Saturday made a surprise visit to Afghanistan
- interesting times, indeed.
- interesting times, indeed.
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I think it would be fair to say that the only country in the world that seems to have any long-term vision and perspective is China. Of course, it's easier if you do not consult your population or concern yourself with their rights or opinions. However, no English speaking country that I can think of has a plan that stretches beyond the next election or budget.
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Of course, it's easier if you do not consult your population or concern yourself with their rights or opinions. However, no English speaking country that I can think of has a plan that stretches beyond the next election or budget.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19635544
I am sure Terry has it mapped already but just in case the BBC have produced a handy targeting map!!
I am sure Terry has it mapped already but just in case the BBC have produced a handy targeting map!!
Last edited by TheWizard; 24th Sep 2012 at 16:45.
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Or they could look at the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation, Islamic Republic of Afghanistan's own Camp Bastion website
Appears to be lots of helpful information on the site for anyone who wants to find the camp...
Appears to be lots of helpful information on the site for anyone who wants to find the camp...
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There was a recent docusoap following a unit in Afghanistan and what one of the commanders said struck home... They were patrolling a road to prevent the Taliban planting mines, and the Taliban were only planting mines to try to kill those patrolling the road..... As he said, if we were not here patrolling it the problem would go away... Sort of a chicken and egg situation.
You do wonder if it is all worth it.... In the history of the Country there has never been a winner... And I always thought in a Country where the Russians gave up and left, what chance did we have at changing things.
Brave guys on that marine squadron and a true leader, a rare quality in this day and age..
You do wonder if it is all worth it.... In the history of the Country there has never been a winner... And I always thought in a Country where the Russians gave up and left, what chance did we have at changing things.
Brave guys on that marine squadron and a true leader, a rare quality in this day and age..
Last edited by NutLoose; 24th Sep 2012 at 23:13.
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Interesting interview on TV Sunday night in Australia
with Major General Cantwell, recently retired who had
been the overall Australian Commander in Afghanistan.
When asked, he did not believe it was worth it.
with Major General Cantwell, recently retired who had
been the overall Australian Commander in Afghanistan.
When asked, he did not believe it was worth it.
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"Interesting" is an... err.. interesting description of that interview, 500N. Unless things have changed A LOT since my days wearing green, I think there would have been some rather ... "interesting" comments coming from the peanut gallery in the TV rooms in every Army barracks tuned in to that interview.
Until I saw at the end of the interview that he was flogging a book, I couldn't make out what in the world he was trying to achieve by going public with what he was saying. (I can't remember the exact words, but I also found the comments he made to his troops during a memorial service for a soldier killed in Afghanistan [played during the interview] to be "unusual" - in the extreme - for a commander of troops in the field.)
Happy to be shot down in flames by currently serving members if attitudes have changed that much since my day, but I really don't think he'd have garnered too much sympathy or empathy with too many of the troops of my day with that interview.
Until I saw at the end of the interview that he was flogging a book, I couldn't make out what in the world he was trying to achieve by going public with what he was saying. (I can't remember the exact words, but I also found the comments he made to his troops during a memorial service for a soldier killed in Afghanistan [played during the interview] to be "unusual" - in the extreme - for a commander of troops in the field.)
Happy to be shot down in flames by currently serving members if attitudes have changed that much since my day, but I really don't think he'd have garnered too much sympathy or empathy with too many of the troops of my day with that interview.
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Andu
I tried to use language that didn't cloud people's judgement re the interview.
What surprises me is the lack of media coverage of the interview
- it's almost like someone shut down any discussion.
Not sure about the sympathy aspect, I think PTSD needs to be spoken about
which was his main aim - I think.
I missed this bit - what did he say ?
"I also found the comments he made to his troops during a memorial service for a soldier killed in Afghanistan [played during the interview] to be "unusual" - in the extreme - for a commander of troops in the field."
I tried to use language that didn't cloud people's judgement re the interview.
What surprises me is the lack of media coverage of the interview
- it's almost like someone shut down any discussion.
Not sure about the sympathy aspect, I think PTSD needs to be spoken about
which was his main aim - I think.
I missed this bit - what did he say ?
"I also found the comments he made to his troops during a memorial service for a soldier killed in Afghanistan [played during the interview] to be "unusual" - in the extreme - for a commander of troops in the field."
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Andu - and others
It seems that a fair few of the recent top combat commanders - Molan, Cantwell and at least one other - have all left at a level below where I thought they might get to in the ADF.
After all, you don't become Chief of Operation for the whole of Iraq, commanding all troops (Molan) if you are a ******** and no good at your job.
It seems that a fair few of the recent top combat commanders - Molan, Cantwell and at least one other - have all left at a level below where I thought they might get to in the ADF.
After all, you don't become Chief of Operation for the whole of Iraq, commanding all troops (Molan) if you are a ******** and no good at your job.
In late 2001 as the war drums were beating for Afghanistan a friend in New York then engaged to an ex Airborne Division guy (retired) and was then recruiting for Navy / Coast Guard in one of the Western states.
At the time I felt going into Afghanistan was a silly idea, he pretty much agreed but made the point that people he knew and had served with would say the same in 1 on 1 conversations but never beyond that. Nobody had figured out WTF were they going to do afterwards and how were they going to exit.
His classic comment was "The enemy don't stay stupid forever ".
At the time I felt going into Afghanistan was a silly idea, he pretty much agreed but made the point that people he knew and had served with would say the same in 1 on 1 conversations but never beyond that. Nobody had figured out WTF were they going to do afterwards and how were they going to exit.
His classic comment was "The enemy don't stay stupid forever ".
The US had no real choice about going into Afghanistan in 2001. The Taleban were harbouring the terrorists who caused 9/11 and were refusing to give them up. In the main, the original campaign using the Northern Alliance was an effective way of delivering the desired result - removal of the Taleban.
The mistake was then trying to 'nation build'. The right move would have been to immediately walk away and leave the country to sort itself out (or not).
The mistake was then trying to 'nation build'. The right move would have been to immediately walk away and leave the country to sort itself out (or not).
Last edited by Red Line Entry; 25th Sep 2012 at 10:30.
The Taleban were harbouring the terrorists who caused 9/11 and were refusing to give them up.
No invasion there just billions in foreign aid..................... oh and they have a nuke.
Should have let Iran do what they wanted to do following the murder and sacking of its consulate in 1998 in Herat .