Don't fly over my house...
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Ratman, sorry to hear you are worried by noise. My concern is purely the risk of leaving one big smoking crater in the center of a town, our town, or any town. The declared aim of rafat is good publicity. Demolishing a town center carries a risk of adverse publicity.
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Mike,
Before I really flash I'd like to know if the objection to a straight and level (visually judged 300ft MSD as you say) entry to display is that it is somehow stunningly dangerous and will inevitably cause wanton death and destruction as it will be over a built up area?
And also, as the man with all of the facts, are in a better position to make the call that it is so stunningly dangerous than the operating authorities, and hence are trying to get it turned off, because of all of the wanton death and destruction that will happen when 9 aircraft fly at 300ft together in formation.
Before I really flash I'd like to know if the objection to a straight and level (visually judged 300ft MSD as you say) entry to display is that it is somehow stunningly dangerous and will inevitably cause wanton death and destruction as it will be over a built up area?
And also, as the man with all of the facts, are in a better position to make the call that it is so stunningly dangerous than the operating authorities, and hence are trying to get it turned off, because of all of the wanton death and destruction that will happen when 9 aircraft fly at 300ft together in formation.
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You flyboys should do your dangerous flying in dangerous flying areas, where there is minimal risk to the innocent civilians who have to pay your tax-free wages and accommodation and food and whatever else we have to pay for.
We have to find jobs, earn our money, pay, tax and ni, save up to buy our homes, pay all our own bills, do our own shopping and pay for everything ourselves. You get it all laid on so you don't undertand how by putting putting our town at risk you upset us and could destroy our whole lives.
We have to find jobs, earn our money, pay, tax and ni, save up to buy our homes, pay all our own bills, do our own shopping and pay for everything ourselves. You get it all laid on so you don't undertand how by putting putting our town at risk you upset us and could destroy our whole lives.
Let him write letters to whoever he wants to - they'll inevitably end up in File 13. He's entitled to his opinion - even though it is crass and wrong, wrong, wrong. To think I spent 30 years of my life defending tossers like him.
Suggest he goes on everyone's ignore list.
Running In No probs - at least you saw the light
Mike,
I'll ask the same thing I asked before; what can happen to a jet to make it crash from 300-400kts in a specific 2 mile stretch?
With a bird strike, you'll have plenty of time and space to climb and glide clear. I can't think of a single possible massive mechanical failure that could do it (wings don't just fall off!). It's not very likely that a pilot, with the general level of medical and physical fitness exhibited by the reds and the numerous medical checks, will spuriously have a heart attack.
The chances of something happening that leaves a Hawk-shaped hole in your local shopping centre are effectively the same of a satellite dropping out of the sky and doing the same; absolutely infinitesimal.
By all means point out dangerous breaches of the rules, but this simply isn't dangerous within the sensible definitions of risk.
I'll ask the same thing I asked before; what can happen to a jet to make it crash from 300-400kts in a specific 2 mile stretch?
With a bird strike, you'll have plenty of time and space to climb and glide clear. I can't think of a single possible massive mechanical failure that could do it (wings don't just fall off!). It's not very likely that a pilot, with the general level of medical and physical fitness exhibited by the reds and the numerous medical checks, will spuriously have a heart attack.
The chances of something happening that leaves a Hawk-shaped hole in your local shopping centre are effectively the same of a satellite dropping out of the sky and doing the same; absolutely infinitesimal.
By all means point out dangerous breaches of the rules, but this simply isn't dangerous within the sensible definitions of risk.
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Good Evening Mr Squadron Leader (retired) Siseman
Many thanks for your kind comments. I must apologise for two typos and one factual inaccuracy in the quote you cited. I regret I took a post by the much revered Mr Exascot, owner of vast estates in Greece and Botswana, as being the truth rather than understanding it as a sardonic/ironic jest.
I must express my full and unswerving support for all those currently and formerly engaged on active service and on training missions over authorised areas. I have flown as a passenger on low-level military flights. Looking up at ships and trees is rather interesting, looking up at power lines even more so.
The sole area of dissent is where military aircraft are engaged in seeking publicity at civil air displays and where they perform manoeuvres which are not normally permitted by use of a waiver which seems inapplicable in certain situations and which is so worded as to acknowledge those exceptions.
I regret I am not gifted with any great degree of precognisance and cannot predict the cause of any possible future disaster. But observance of normal procedures would seem more reasonable than stretching a waiver further than might be deemed reasonable.
I note that you have read past two PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL warnings before arriving here. Another one follows.
Wishing you a very peaceful and happy retirement,
Mike the Oldie
Many thanks for your kind comments. I must apologise for two typos and one factual inaccuracy in the quote you cited. I regret I took a post by the much revered Mr Exascot, owner of vast estates in Greece and Botswana, as being the truth rather than understanding it as a sardonic/ironic jest.
I must express my full and unswerving support for all those currently and formerly engaged on active service and on training missions over authorised areas. I have flown as a passenger on low-level military flights. Looking up at ships and trees is rather interesting, looking up at power lines even more so.
The sole area of dissent is where military aircraft are engaged in seeking publicity at civil air displays and where they perform manoeuvres which are not normally permitted by use of a waiver which seems inapplicable in certain situations and which is so worded as to acknowledge those exceptions.
I regret I am not gifted with any great degree of precognisance and cannot predict the cause of any possible future disaster. But observance of normal procedures would seem more reasonable than stretching a waiver further than might be deemed reasonable.
I note that you have read past two PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL warnings before arriving here. Another one follows.
Wishing you a very peaceful and happy retirement,
Mike the Oldie
Last edited by mike-wsm; 23rd Sep 2012 at 18:53. Reason: security
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mike-wsm,
A genuine question for you, as I am trying to get my head around your real problem..
Is your concern purely for the safety of life to those on the ground because of the rear entry 'Arrival Manoevre' of the Red Arrows over your town at 300' for an air display?
A genuine question for you, as I am trying to get my head around your real problem..
Is your concern purely for the safety of life to those on the ground because of the rear entry 'Arrival Manoevre' of the Red Arrows over your town at 300' for an air display?
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Mike
You seem to have a fear about aircraft crashing which most consider irrational but its your fear and with that valid. If you feel what has happened is wrong then I am sure your concerns will be looked at by the right authorities and changes will be made
All the best Mike, take it easy out there.
You seem to have a fear about aircraft crashing which most consider irrational but its your fear and with that valid. If you feel what has happened is wrong then I am sure your concerns will be looked at by the right authorities and changes will be made
All the best Mike, take it easy out there.
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Americans practicing dogfighting over a major conhabitation at night has me more worried that the Sparrows lining up for a display run in at 300 ft over a town. Hey they do it over London all the time!
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Kipling had it right...
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint of beer.
The publican 'e ups an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me.
They sent me to the gallery or 'round the music-'alls.
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! They'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopships' on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy 'ow's your soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O, it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country," when the guns begins to shoot;
Yes, it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
The publican 'e ups an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, and Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me.
They sent me to the gallery or 'round the music-'alls.
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! They'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopships' on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy 'ow's your soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O, it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of his country," when the guns begins to shoot;
Yes, it's Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
My concern is purely the risk of leaving one big smoking crater in the center of a town
Do you drive a car? Eat canned food? Breathe the air? Why pray tell are you not whining on the phone to the dept for transport, HSE and Environment Agency instead of polluting this forum?
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Kipling had it right...
My concern is purely the risk of leaving one big smoking crater in the center of a town
Are we talking about the town where you live Mike? Sounds like a good idea to me.
Last edited by Shack37; 24th Sep 2012 at 22:21.
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This left a big hole about 2 miles from ejection point
Date: 28-JUN-1993
Time:
Type:
BAe Harrier II GR.7
Operator: 3 Squadron, RAF
Registration: ZD430
C/n / msn: P42
Fatalities: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 1
Other fatalities: 0
Airplane damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Hecklington, 7 miles from Sleaford, Lincolnshire - United Kingdom
Phase: En route
Nature: Military
Departure airport: RAF Leeming
Destination airport: RAF Coningsby (QCY/EGXC)
Narrative:
Crashed onto farmland between Hecklington and Burton Pedwardine, seven miles from Sleaford, Lincolnshire after the pilot had ejected at about 3000 feet and 220 knots, following an unsuccessful attempt to make an emergency landing at RAF Coningsby.
(ZD430 was en route from RAF Leeming back to RAF Gutersloh, Germany)
Fuel from a massive leak on the starboard wing leading edge, probably caused by a bird strike, was ignited by the engine
Date: 28-JUN-1993
Time:
Type:
BAe Harrier II GR.7
Operator: 3 Squadron, RAF
Registration: ZD430
C/n / msn: P42
Fatalities: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 1
Other fatalities: 0
Airplane damage: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Hecklington, 7 miles from Sleaford, Lincolnshire - United Kingdom
Phase: En route
Nature: Military
Departure airport: RAF Leeming
Destination airport: RAF Coningsby (QCY/EGXC)
Narrative:
Crashed onto farmland between Hecklington and Burton Pedwardine, seven miles from Sleaford, Lincolnshire after the pilot had ejected at about 3000 feet and 220 knots, following an unsuccessful attempt to make an emergency landing at RAF Coningsby.
(ZD430 was en route from RAF Leeming back to RAF Gutersloh, Germany)
Fuel from a massive leak on the starboard wing leading edge, probably caused by a bird strike, was ignited by the engine
Plus, he had a birdstrike and then positioned for Coningsby; how long elapsed between impact and crash? His jet may have landed 2 miles from his ejection point, but that's not what we're talking about here.
That's not the same as a bird strike taking out the engine in a 400kt cruise and giving you time to climb and look for a safe site to abandon.
That's not the same as a bird strike taking out the engine in a 400kt cruise and giving you time to climb and look for a safe site to abandon.
Hey, let's face it. An operation of this size, there are bound to be a few losses. The Vulcan keeps flying over my house. And loads of private planes, hundreds of helos when Silverstone is active. And airliners. Bits drop off them all the time.
But I'm not whinging about it. I'm doing the sensible thing and moving to France to live beside a nice safe nuclear power plant.
But I'm not whinging about it. I'm doing the sensible thing and moving to France to live beside a nice safe nuclear power plant.
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Don't fly over my house
Glad this one did, a Hawker Sea Hawk. They used to fly over regularly in the late 50's as my house was on the flight path to H.M.S. Daedalus about a mile from touch down. This one flew over in August 2010,
Regards,
Bob
Regards,
Bob
Last edited by bob shayler; 25th Sep 2012 at 18:55.
