The South China Sea's Gathering Storm
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Moscow region
Age: 64
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JTO,
Indeed, you are right about "shifting the focus". Though this NK ugly shorty would unlikely threaten the US territory, Japan and South Korea are under threat.
But is it really difficult to make VX on a country level? I am not an expert in chemistry, but using a common sense: it was developed in mid 50's in UK by the guys working for agriculture to fight weeds :-) No serious MoD investment, no huge plants in their possession. There was even an open GB patent with all the formulas, reaction chain description, etc. Might be impossible to make for jihadists hiding in the holes, but not for a militarized economy of the 25 mln country.
IMHO, helas, it is only China that can change all that (the NK regime), in a "couple of clicks". But they obviously do not want to: no need for them to scare their long-term rival (Japan) themselves. Let Kim do that.
Indeed, you are right about "shifting the focus". Though this NK ugly shorty would unlikely threaten the US territory, Japan and South Korea are under threat.
But is it really difficult to make VX on a country level? I am not an expert in chemistry, but using a common sense: it was developed in mid 50's in UK by the guys working for agriculture to fight weeds :-) No serious MoD investment, no huge plants in their possession. There was even an open GB patent with all the formulas, reaction chain description, etc. Might be impossible to make for jihadists hiding in the holes, but not for a militarized economy of the 25 mln country.
IMHO, helas, it is only China that can change all that (the NK regime), in a "couple of clicks". But they obviously do not want to: no need for them to scare their long-term rival (Japan) themselves. Let Kim do that.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think China has a number of reservations about regime -change
1. They are not sure it can be done peaceably and they don't want a couple of million refugees flooding in
2. They sure as hell don't want a united (western) Korea across the border
3. They have strong prejudice about people interfering in other people's countrries
1. They are not sure it can be done peaceably and they don't want a couple of million refugees flooding in
2. They sure as hell don't want a united (western) Korea across the border
3. They have strong prejudice about people interfering in other people's countrries
US to deploy missile-capable drones across border from North Korea
Article in the Guardian
Deployment of Grey Eagle drones, designed to carry Hellfire missiles, in the South represents significant build-up of US military muscle.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: birmingham
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know much about NK but the Guardian comments pages sure are filled with loony tunes who just hate the US with a capital H. NK ? All the US's fault, NK threaten all their neighbors? The US's fault. In fact everything anywhere in the world is apparently the fault of the US. Have they always been like this ? Really odd people.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Don't waste time, do they?
Warning that Beijing's military bases in South China Sea are ready for use
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hina-sea-ready
Warning that Beijing's military bases in South China Sea are ready for use
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...hina-sea-ready
Chinese patrol ships keep presence around Malaysian reefs
Article in today's Guardian:-
Extract -
Something else to be discussed at Mar-a-Lago...
Extract -
Chinese coastguard vessels maintain a near-constant presence around reefs claimed by Malaysia in the South China Sea, ship-tracking data shared with the Guardian has revealed.
The findings show the extent of Beijing’s military ambitions far south of its borders, antagonising south-east Asian countries and deepening a potentially explosive foreign policy crisis with the US president, Donald Trump.
During the first two months of 2017, three Chinese ships patrolled the Luconia Shoals, an area of islets and reefs that are more than 1,000 miles (1,600km) from mainland China and only about 90 miles (145 km) north of Malaysian Borneo.
The findings show the extent of Beijing’s military ambitions far south of its borders, antagonising south-east Asian countries and deepening a potentially explosive foreign policy crisis with the US president, Donald Trump.
During the first two months of 2017, three Chinese ships patrolled the Luconia Shoals, an area of islets and reefs that are more than 1,000 miles (1,600km) from mainland China and only about 90 miles (145 km) north of Malaysian Borneo.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd say "the west" should react by, step by step, putting own assets into the area as well. P-8, base agreements, naval patrols, new permanent stuff. Make them pay a price for any tiny bit. They move - we move. THAAD was quite right.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trouble is not everyone in the area is that keen on risking a fight with China. the West (ok the USA) has to have agreements and treaties in place to build a permanent presence. The locals will want cast-iron guarantees that we'll back them if it all goes pear-shaped
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well of course I mean the generic "we" as the free thinking liberal people of the West...
But if it comes to Military action it actually means YOU as in the YOUSA - and maybe with whoever's arms you can twist on any specific issue...........
The rest of us will back them but only as far as a UN Resolution - God forbid military action - which is why the SE Asians are a bit worried about upsetting China
But if it comes to Military action it actually means YOU as in the YOUSA - and maybe with whoever's arms you can twist on any specific issue...........
The rest of us will back them but only as far as a UN Resolution - God forbid military action - which is why the SE Asians are a bit worried about upsetting China
Some people want to go looking for a War all the time.
China hasn't attacked anybody yet everybody seemingly want to surround them with missiles and then claim it is China being belligerent.
People with the most money can buy the Government they want in the west and then use that Govt in pursuit of their own goals.
Just exactly what is the purpose of the West ?
Millions of people living in poverty, no income yet "the leaders" instead of looking after their own population are rushing to start a war somewhere else.
It then becomes a rinse and repeat continuously even though it doesn't work.
http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/us-blasts-china-unprofessional-intercept-military-plane-fighter/ Looks like someone's been watching Top Gun again...or they wanted pics of antennas on the top?
Chinese 'coastguard' ships flying drones over the Senkaku Islands?
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20170519_17/
Japan's Defense Minister Tomomi Inada has revealed that Self-Defense Force aircraft were scrambled when a drone was spotted near a Chinese ship in Japanese waters.
Inada told reporters on Friday that 2 F-15 fighters and an AWACS surveillance plane were dispatched after the sighting by the Coast Guard the previous day.
The drone was flying near one of 4 Chinese patrol ships that entered Japan's territorial waters near the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.
Inada said the drone was operated by Chinese vessels that intruded into Japanese waters and this was a serious infringement of Japan's sovereignty.
The Foreign Ministry lodged a protest with China on Thursday, saying the conduct could escalate tensions.
Japan controls the islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20170519_17/
Japan's Defense Minister Tomomi Inada has revealed that Self-Defense Force aircraft were scrambled when a drone was spotted near a Chinese ship in Japanese waters.
Inada told reporters on Friday that 2 F-15 fighters and an AWACS surveillance plane were dispatched after the sighting by the Coast Guard the previous day.
The drone was flying near one of 4 Chinese patrol ships that entered Japan's territorial waters near the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea.
Inada said the drone was operated by Chinese vessels that intruded into Japanese waters and this was a serious infringement of Japan's sovereignty.
The Foreign Ministry lodged a protest with China on Thursday, saying the conduct could escalate tensions.
Japan controls the islands. The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. China and Taiwan claim them.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: No longer a hot and sandy place....but back to the UK for an indefinite period
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al Jazeera news are reporting that a USAF surveillance aircraft has been buzzed within fifty metres, by a couple of Chinese interceptors.
A note for Top Gun fans....for a period, one interceptor flew inverted over the top of the USAF plane.
A note for Top Gun fans....for a period, one interceptor flew inverted over the top of the USAF plane.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Next generation SOSUS?
China builds huge underwater spy network in disputed seas
Beijing is building a vast £230 million underwater spying network across the sea bed of disputed territory in the East China Sea and South China Sea raising fears that President Xi is plotting to seize new land and expand his military presence.
China will create a huge surveillance hub with underwater cameras, sensors and radars that will feed information back to Shanghai. It is suspected that Beijing will use the information to monitor shipping traffic and scrutinise any attempts by its neighbours who dispute China’s territorial claims in the region to grab back land. Beijing has said that the spying hub will give “round-the-clock, real-time, high-definition, multiple interface, and three-dimensional observations”.
While the ruling party initially said that the hub would advance oceanic studies, CCTV, the state-owned broadcaster, later said that it would also “meet the needs in other areas such as national defence and disaster warning.”......
The new underwater development is expected to take five years to complete. Jian Zhimin, dean of the School of Ocean and Earth Science at Tongji University in Shanghai, said: “Devices will be placed down on the sea bed through optical cables; in other words we’ll build a laboratory undersea to collect and send data back to us.” He added: “China is an ocean power . . . An ocean power must be able to go to the high seas and go global.”
Zhou Huaiyang, a professor at Tongji University, said he too believed that the underwater initiative could be used to endorse China’s territorial claims. “After its establishment, this system can also have some effects in other sectors, such as mining, mapping or ocean rights protection and national defence in addition to scientific research,” he said......
China builds huge underwater spy network in disputed seas
Beijing is building a vast £230 million underwater spying network across the sea bed of disputed territory in the East China Sea and South China Sea raising fears that President Xi is plotting to seize new land and expand his military presence.
China will create a huge surveillance hub with underwater cameras, sensors and radars that will feed information back to Shanghai. It is suspected that Beijing will use the information to monitor shipping traffic and scrutinise any attempts by its neighbours who dispute China’s territorial claims in the region to grab back land. Beijing has said that the spying hub will give “round-the-clock, real-time, high-definition, multiple interface, and three-dimensional observations”.
While the ruling party initially said that the hub would advance oceanic studies, CCTV, the state-owned broadcaster, later said that it would also “meet the needs in other areas such as national defence and disaster warning.”......
The new underwater development is expected to take five years to complete. Jian Zhimin, dean of the School of Ocean and Earth Science at Tongji University in Shanghai, said: “Devices will be placed down on the sea bed through optical cables; in other words we’ll build a laboratory undersea to collect and send data back to us.” He added: “China is an ocean power . . . An ocean power must be able to go to the high seas and go global.”
Zhou Huaiyang, a professor at Tongji University, said he too believed that the underwater initiative could be used to endorse China’s territorial claims. “After its establishment, this system can also have some effects in other sectors, such as mining, mapping or ocean rights protection and national defence in addition to scientific research,” he said......
