Waddington Airshow 2012
Oh dear, is this what happens when 'enthusiastic amateurs' mess around with ex RAF aircraft, is the pilot competent and just think it could have been a catastrophe, it could of veered of the runway and hit all those people on the crowd line and been a complete disaster, nearly like the RAF Cranwell Hawk, at least it was not a nuclear aircraft it could have really turned out bad. 
Sorry got carried away after reading the Vulcan thread on the nostalgia forum and suddenly realised that this is aircrew not ground crew and was probably high jinks not a mistake which should not have happened and that we should not criticise and leave it to those in the know/Human factors etc.
Sorry got carried away after reading the Vulcan thread on the nostalgia forum and suddenly realised that this is aircrew not ground crew and was probably high jinks not a mistake which should not have happened and that we should not criticise and leave it to those in the know/Human factors etc.
Last edited by Exrigger; 30th Jun 2012 at 16:35.
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Not a problem, two rolls of speed tape ( extra sticky ) to be applied and she'll be reet.
Do you think he thought as it was red and white that he'll land it like a chippy !!
Do you think he thought as it was red and white that he'll land it like a chippy !!
"...The South Korean T50 team have practiced over Scampton over the past 2 days. Noisy little buggers, sort of a 3/4 size F16/18 hybrid. Not a bad display but I don't think the RAFAT have much to worry about..."
Sorry O, but I think RAFAT have lots to worry about, the Korean display overhead Waddington on Thursady and for the show today was superb, knocked hats off the reds (very undynamic): Saudi Hawks were spectacular too. Enjoyed all of it, not unpatriotic at all, but there is a discernable gulf (no pun intended) developing between these teams from the audience perspective, certainly mentioned by some that I spoke too - including a number of VIPs...
Sorry O, but I think RAFAT have lots to worry about, the Korean display overhead Waddington on Thursady and for the show today was superb, knocked hats off the reds (very undynamic): Saudi Hawks were spectacular too. Enjoyed all of it, not unpatriotic at all, but there is a discernable gulf (no pun intended) developing between these teams from the audience perspective, certainly mentioned by some that I spoke too - including a number of VIPs...
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R&G
If you thought that the Koreans were much better than the Reds today at Waddington, may I suggest you visit Specsavers.
The Koreans gave an interesting and unusual show but technically they were not in the same league as the Reds. As for the Saudis; a good effort and the synchros were VERY close, but spectacular? Perlease!
The Frecci were great as always but they do the same routine every year and the lack of synchros since Ramstein is a handicap.
I thought the Reds did a great show in those conditions of wind and cloud base: flat to start with, then rolling and finally some full when the clouds at last permitted. Flexible, professional, tight and very pleasing. Look forward to them getting back to 9 ship next season.
If you thought that the Koreans were much better than the Reds today at Waddington, may I suggest you visit Specsavers.
The Koreans gave an interesting and unusual show but technically they were not in the same league as the Reds. As for the Saudis; a good effort and the synchros were VERY close, but spectacular? Perlease!
The Frecci were great as always but they do the same routine every year and the lack of synchros since Ramstein is a handicap.
I thought the Reds did a great show in those conditions of wind and cloud base: flat to start with, then rolling and finally some full when the clouds at last permitted. Flexible, professional, tight and very pleasing. Look forward to them getting back to 9 ship next season.
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Luckily Jesse James, Sir Stirling Moss, Lewis Hamilton et al were in fine form, at the Goodwood Festival of Speed.
Apparently the raf sent something over, but the rally stages were far more interesting.
Apparently the raf sent something over, but the rally stages were far more interesting.
EXRigger,whilst it may seem that the `enthusiastic` amateurs are playing at `high jinks`,it might be worth remembering that sometimes `s&&t happens` for all sorts of reasons,and in the end he will dig deep and pay for the engineers to fix it,as the guys do to operate the aircraft. It is ,I`m sure ,not the first time a Gnat,or any other jet has had a tail-scrape; now the cost comes out of the operators pocket; the pilot is most assuredly `gutted` at having it made so visible,but there are many reasons why and how it could happen,but not due to `high-jinks`.... Of course ,if you wish to contribute,etc,etc.....!!
Last edited by sycamore; 30th Jun 2012 at 21:43.
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Willard
I was trying hard to work out why on earth you posted your mean spirited, puerile and completely unnecessary comments about Goodwood on this thread. Then I examined your profile and record and understood. Don't worry. Just keep taking your meds.
I was trying hard to work out why on earth you posted your mean spirited, puerile and completely unnecessary comments about Goodwood on this thread. Then I examined your profile and record and understood. Don't worry. Just keep taking your meds.
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Well done to the RNZAF 757 display 
. It's not often at all that you see a large aircraft being thrown around like that, although I was expecting a very flare at the steep bank point!.
Also reminded me of a VC-10 display I saw as a kid at Duxford (many moons ago!).
. It's not often at all that you see a large aircraft being thrown around like that, although I was expecting a very flare at the steep bank point!. Also reminded me of a VC-10 display I saw as a kid at Duxford (many moons ago!).
Shortly before the Gnat "touched" down there was an exchange on the r/t between the pilot and ATC. Something along the lines of three requests from the controller to confirm that the aircraft was "gear down" before a landing clearance was granted; the pilot reluctantly confirmed as such. Only a theory, but he may have been a bit miffed at this intrusive interrogation and possibly distracted by it, thus his less than ideal configuration.
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I thought the Korean display was very impressive and was much more 'interesting' from a spectator POV. They did put the reds into second place and everyone that was discussing them agreed.
Regardless of who was the better display, with the general lack of ac statics,
endless stalls of 'tat', and very pricey entrance fees, how long can shows like this remain viable?
£26 adult ticket
£1.70 for T
£5.70 for a pork bun
endless stalls of 'tat', and very pricey entrance fees, how long can shows like this remain viable?
£26 adult ticket
£1.70 for T
£5.70 for a pork bun
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
CBLT, as long as the punters keep paying.
Long gone are the days when air shows were about, well air shows. Now they about days out and are priced accordingly. The 'company' now employes professional organisers, professional marquee and events organisers, refuse and toilets etc, barriers etc as the military staffs are thinner on the ground and less 'mis-employable'.
The price goes up, the tat stalls pay more and 'every one' had a 'great' day out. For the purist, such as yourself, it is overpriced, full of tat, and not about aircraft. Unfortunately for you you are in the minority.
Now as few years ago (I was still in shorts) my friend arrived on his bike, said it's Battle of Britain Day, so off we biked about 10 miles to RAF Hooton Park, a reservist airfield. A few RAFVR were there and wholly unprepared for the 'air show' crowd that turned up. I guess there were several hundred of us. They then dragged a couple of jets, don't recall the type, out as static and proceeded to call up on RAF Common any aircraft that had time in hand.
The one display I remember was a Shackleton en route north, having done a display at Sealand, that detoured on gave us a display. Ten years later I joined the RAF; that was the sort of organisation I wanted to join.
Things have changed.
PS, but this afternoon we had a Spitfire, a Dakota, a Lancaster, Spitfire and Hurricane, then two Spitfires. The Lancaster especially seemed to be the wrong side of 300 feet, and not an airfield in sight
Now that is the sort of organisation I would want to join.
Long gone are the days when air shows were about, well air shows. Now they about days out and are priced accordingly. The 'company' now employes professional organisers, professional marquee and events organisers, refuse and toilets etc, barriers etc as the military staffs are thinner on the ground and less 'mis-employable'.
The price goes up, the tat stalls pay more and 'every one' had a 'great' day out. For the purist, such as yourself, it is overpriced, full of tat, and not about aircraft. Unfortunately for you you are in the minority.
Now as few years ago (I was still in shorts) my friend arrived on his bike, said it's Battle of Britain Day, so off we biked about 10 miles to RAF Hooton Park, a reservist airfield. A few RAFVR were there and wholly unprepared for the 'air show' crowd that turned up. I guess there were several hundred of us. They then dragged a couple of jets, don't recall the type, out as static and proceeded to call up on RAF Common any aircraft that had time in hand.
The one display I remember was a Shackleton en route north, having done a display at Sealand, that detoured on gave us a display. Ten years later I joined the RAF; that was the sort of organisation I wanted to join.
Things have changed.
PS, but this afternoon we had a Spitfire, a Dakota, a Lancaster, Spitfire and Hurricane, then two Spitfires. The Lancaster especially seemed to be the wrong side of 300 feet, and not an airfield in sight
Now that is the sort of organisation I would want to join.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 1st Jul 2012 at 21:03.
Interesting points PN and CBLT. I paid my £40 today to get myself and my 12 year old son onto the base I spent 6 of the best years of my service career on. As I don’t live near an RAF unit now it seemed a good way to see if he would catch some of the enthusiasm you talk about and which I got from visits to stations in my early teens after joining the Air Cadets. We tried to avoid the worst of the commercialisation of the show which as noted seems to have increased out of all recognition since I worked there last in 1998, but I would agree that although the flying display was alright the static line was pretty poor. I have to say I was impressed by the service personnel we did speak to who all took time to look interested and informative.
I suppose the question must be would such an event be viable if you strip out all the commercial stuff, and could a smaller show be hosted by any RAF unit given the current constraints on resources.
I guess that what we have is the best compromise between commercial reality and operational resources, although I’d be interested if there are any viable alternatives.
I suppose the question must be would such an event be viable if you strip out all the commercial stuff, and could a smaller show be hosted by any RAF unit given the current constraints on resources.
I guess that what we have is the best compromise between commercial reality and operational resources, although I’d be interested if there are any viable alternatives.
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814
That to me is a pretty good summary of things. We were used to a very comprehensive itinerary in years past, but not so these days, for reasons valid and various. Still though, my offspring demand to be taken to events which I myself would choose to forego - so there seemingly remains, in our young people, an interest in things that fly? As for me, airshows are as described by 814, and I can't be ars#d. I continue to love all things with wings, but, sadly, the bigger airshows (including IAT and F'Boro) don't press my button any longer. And a Corporate invite wouldn't really make a difference these days - not that I receive any! That said, I'm open to invites
That to me is a pretty good summary of things. We were used to a very comprehensive itinerary in years past, but not so these days, for reasons valid and various. Still though, my offspring demand to be taken to events which I myself would choose to forego - so there seemingly remains, in our young people, an interest in things that fly? As for me, airshows are as described by 814, and I can't be ars#d. I continue to love all things with wings, but, sadly, the bigger airshows (including IAT and F'Boro) don't press my button any longer. And a Corporate invite wouldn't really make a difference these days - not that I receive any! That said, I'm open to invites
Last edited by jindabyne; 2nd Jul 2012 at 00:12.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
814, I ran the air show side of a small display at Coningsby about 25 years ago. The costs were modest and with creative accounting we netted around £100k or around £3 per person.
A few years later, before Finningley closed, charitable giving was another tick box on the route to Air Cdre (cynic?) and the staish at Waddington wanted his share of the air show pot but he wanted a 'small' at home. We pointed out that 'small' could not guarantee to cover the fixed costs - toilets, traffic management, police, signage, posters, programmes, barrier hire, marquees, seating. insurance, etc etc. Litter clearance and the Sunday FOD Plod were all done in-house for 'free' just another weekend stolen. The only way to cover the fixed charges was larger scale. It worked - just.
The following year we had to cancel, although we had not laid out too much money, as GW1 intervened.
Subsequently Waddo went professional. The full-time amateur airshow organiser from Finningley, a mis-employed Nav Instructor from the ANS, retired and became the full time professional organiser at a salary of around £30k, he had a business manager, a retired ex-nav off the E3, at a similar fee and of course a couple of administrators. No longer were toilets and litter clearance, and possibly even barrier erection, done in-house, but done commercially and paid for from the revenue.
The MOD supports only a couple of large shows now - Waddington and Leuchars as far as I know - with other shows theoretically paying participants T&S and other costs such as smoke for the display teams.
All air shows are expensive and the standing charges so high that they have to do everything possible to maximise revenue.
One airshow I remember was Coltishall around 1969. The weather was delta sierra with base at around 1,000 feet, moderate rain and dense black clouds. There appeared to be no more than a couple of thousand people on the display line as we did a horizontal display in the Lanc. Given the waether we gave them the best we could for their money but it was a traditional airshow and not your modern show biz extravanganza.
]
A few years later, before Finningley closed, charitable giving was another tick box on the route to Air Cdre (cynic?) and the staish at Waddington wanted his share of the air show pot but he wanted a 'small' at home. We pointed out that 'small' could not guarantee to cover the fixed costs - toilets, traffic management, police, signage, posters, programmes, barrier hire, marquees, seating. insurance, etc etc. Litter clearance and the Sunday FOD Plod were all done in-house for 'free' just another weekend stolen. The only way to cover the fixed charges was larger scale. It worked - just.
The following year we had to cancel, although we had not laid out too much money, as GW1 intervened.
Subsequently Waddo went professional. The full-time amateur airshow organiser from Finningley, a mis-employed Nav Instructor from the ANS, retired and became the full time professional organiser at a salary of around £30k, he had a business manager, a retired ex-nav off the E3, at a similar fee and of course a couple of administrators. No longer were toilets and litter clearance, and possibly even barrier erection, done in-house, but done commercially and paid for from the revenue.
The MOD supports only a couple of large shows now - Waddington and Leuchars as far as I know - with other shows theoretically paying participants T&S and other costs such as smoke for the display teams.
All air shows are expensive and the standing charges so high that they have to do everything possible to maximise revenue.
my offspring demand to be taken to events which I myself would choose to forego
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Waddington Airshow
Gentlemen
Just returned from the airshow having spent Mrs Lukesdad's housekeeping on one of the 'hospitality' packages offered on the website.
An excellent day organised by the lovely 'Katerina' who seems to be in charge of organising everything on the site.
Airshow was excellent and the marquee and all things to do with the package were delivered with grace and efficiency.
Just returned from the airshow having spent Mrs Lukesdad's housekeeping on one of the 'hospitality' packages offered on the website.
An excellent day organised by the lovely 'Katerina' who seems to be in charge of organising everything on the site.
Airshow was excellent and the marquee and all things to do with the package were delivered with grace and efficiency.
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"Hats off to the Italians, what a brilliant display on Saturday, with a fantastic commentary from their colleague on the ground! "
Saw them on Sunday, I have to agree, they were the highlight for me
Bear
Saw them on Sunday, I have to agree, they were the highlight for me
Bear
