Historical RAF Uniform Question
Gentleman Aviator
very fashionable knitted black tie
He would cut off a length and use it as a tie. When quizzed as to its longevity (not much) he's say: "When it wears out, I bit in and cut off another one from the reel."
Another sartorial eccentricity of his was the 3-piece No 1. He always wore a Number 1 when not flying, and in those pre-wooly pully days obviously found the bosses' office a tad draughty for shirtsleeves nad the jacket a bit constricting for desk work. Solution: he had a matching vest/waistcoat made (full length; not like a No 5 one), complete with little brass buttons (probably from No5, never got that close) which he would don in the office having doffed his No1 jacket. Perhaps if VERY cold he could even wear it under the jacket!
And he retired as a 2-star .........
Last edited by teeteringhead; 18th Jun 2012 at 11:00.
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The waistcoat was an approved option with No 1 at one time, though I never saw one.
I went to the OCTU in June 1972 and was issued with collar attached cotton shirts of the end on end kind. They were nearly identical in colour to the ones worn by officers, but the more expensive officers' shirts had curious curved corners - or lack of corners - to their cuffs. I continued wearing mine until well into the 1970s, possibly early 1980s, gradually replacing them with wedgewood blue polycotton from the clothing store.
Great coats were on the way out - courses earlier in 1972 had been given deficiency chits - we didn't even get that.
When I was doing my basic nav training in 1973, one of my course mates appeared in a pullover - the first one any of us had seen. The V neck was definitely in service by 1987 because I remember OC 30 wearing one when he was PMC and I was Mess Treasurer.
I went to the OCTU in June 1972 and was issued with collar attached cotton shirts of the end on end kind. They were nearly identical in colour to the ones worn by officers, but the more expensive officers' shirts had curious curved corners - or lack of corners - to their cuffs. I continued wearing mine until well into the 1970s, possibly early 1980s, gradually replacing them with wedgewood blue polycotton from the clothing store.
Great coats were on the way out - courses earlier in 1972 had been given deficiency chits - we didn't even get that.
When I was doing my basic nav training in 1973, one of my course mates appeared in a pullover - the first one any of us had seen. The V neck was definitely in service by 1987 because I remember OC 30 wearing one when he was PMC and I was Mess Treasurer.
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Blimey, I go away for a weekend and come back to a veritable cornucopia of information in reply! Excellent stuff, thanks chaps, I think my questions have been thoroughly answered!
Have to say, the picture of the aircrew types standing next to the "Standardisation Unit" sign made me laugh out loud!
Have to say, the picture of the aircrew types standing next to the "Standardisation Unit" sign made me laugh out loud!
Gentleman Aviator
Have to say, the picture of the aircrew types standing next to the "Standardisation Unit" sign made me laugh out loud!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Sinker, re-officers shirts, when the new colour came in in '74 an enterprising Irishman visited all the messes offering us then new pattern shirts the same as the MOD was ordering in bulk for stores.
What we didn't know was that he was front-loading his production line. He met our orders and true to his word we got them, at higher cost, before they arrived in stores. We simply got the first batch off the production line.
As for cuffs being different that could be down to the MOD placing more than one contract and not ensuring the details were properly sorted.
An example of MOD contracts, or rather Air Ministry ones, was the cold weather gloves much prized by tanker drivers (not airframe ones). They were soft leather with the liner sewn in to the leather but different colours. For some reason they had been separately procured as gaunlets, left and gaunlets, right.
Little wonder that the RAF never, in all my time, had a uniform the same between two or more individuals.
What we didn't know was that he was front-loading his production line. He met our orders and true to his word we got them, at higher cost, before they arrived in stores. We simply got the first batch off the production line.
As for cuffs being different that could be down to the MOD placing more than one contract and not ensuring the details were properly sorted.
An example of MOD contracts, or rather Air Ministry ones, was the cold weather gloves much prized by tanker drivers (not airframe ones). They were soft leather with the liner sewn in to the leather but different colours. For some reason they had been separately procured as gaunlets, left and gaunlets, right.
Little wonder that the RAF never, in all my time, had a uniform the same between two or more individuals.
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Makes me laugh to hear certain factions of the re-enactment community go on about how WW2 Service Dress was exactly that shade of blue, and SD caps were all exactly that tall...
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PW, it is a tribute to our cloth manufacturers that they use natural materials and a different dye for each batch.
Always impressed with the USAF uniforms, until they put those epaulettes on, with every top and bottom matching and blending with the shirts, and every man the same. Shoes OTOH is yet another story!
Always impressed with the USAF uniforms, until they put those epaulettes on, with every top and bottom matching and blending with the shirts, and every man the same. Shoes OTOH is yet another story!
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Long shot ... but I don't suppose anybody remembers what happened to that 1 GSU sign??
Took me 'kin ages to design, cut, and polish the metal bits and then paint the sign.
Took me 'kin ages to design, cut, and polish the metal bits and then paint the sign.
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It appears that a lot of pruners think that the round neck wooly-pulley was the first sweater to be issued - not so. We used to get issued with a very light weight long sleeved, V-necked jumper for use in cold weather. I seem to recall that it could not be worn without a jacket and the tie was worn outside of the jumper. I found it to be very comfortable.
Also the old woolen gloves as issued to erks could not be worn unless the wearer was also wearing a raincoat or greatcoat.
Phil.
Also the old woolen gloves as issued to erks could not be worn unless the wearer was also wearing a raincoat or greatcoat.
Phil.
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Close to my planned exit I had the misfortune to "mislay" my well-worn SD hat in the gents at Manston when on a brief visit, and very soon therafter a new puppy decided to take a fancy to my No.1 "Sunday best" Bates' hat. Result, no servicable SD hat and being close to my exit I was understandably not keen on shelling out for replacements......
My only hat was my trusty chip bag which was fine for working wear but no good for parades or SDO! Hence the question...."when did the practice of wearing side caps and No.1 cease?"
I ended up borrowing a SD hat for my last day in uniform as I cleared and said goodbye to the execs and my children who used to use remnants of my uniform for fancy dress parties always complained that they needed a hat to complete the outfit!
Still got my helmet though, not that it's much use without one of Aunt Betty's best to plug it into...
MB
My only hat was my trusty chip bag which was fine for working wear but no good for parades or SDO! Hence the question...."when did the practice of wearing side caps and No.1 cease?"
I ended up borrowing a SD hat for my last day in uniform as I cleared and said goodbye to the execs and my children who used to use remnants of my uniform for fancy dress parties always complained that they needed a hat to complete the outfit!
Still got my helmet though, not that it's much use without one of Aunt Betty's best to plug it into...
MB
Last edited by Madbob; 19th Jun 2012 at 08:02.
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Ok I cannot resist this one... Sorry
Of course you have, you couldn't have become an officer if you were not a complete pr....
Still got my helmet though
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Madbob, and bush jacket and shorts.
The Stone bush jacket could be either long sleeved, short sleeved, or long sleeved rolled up. Uniform!
You ask when did Forage caps and No 1s stop? You might also ask when did berets and No 2s stop. I have a picture on my uncle in his barathea No 2s and beret.
No so much traditions more a question of habits.
The Stone bush jacket could be either long sleeved, short sleeved, or long sleeved rolled up. Uniform!
You ask when did Forage caps and No 1s stop? You might also ask when did berets and No 2s stop. I have a picture on my uncle in his barathea No 2s and beret.
No so much traditions more a question of habits.
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It is a bit like when did Civi pilots stop wearing their ribbons on their uniforms. I suppose it just died out.
Last edited by NutLoose; 18th Jun 2012 at 17:42.
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Madbob
Sir Peter Squire when CAS around the turn of the century was still wearing a forage cap with his No1 on non-parade occasions. Saw him hosting foreign air chiefs at Farnborough in that rig.
Sir Peter Squire when CAS around the turn of the century was still wearing a forage cap with his No1 on non-parade occasions. Saw him hosting foreign air chiefs at Farnborough in that rig.
Slight thread drift, but the stories of crew-neck vs v-neck sweaters, brought to mind how rules on clothing changed fairly arbitrarily. In 1970, as a senior entry flight cadet at Cranwell, we were used to the rule that you either wore a suit in the Mess or a jacket and tie at weekends. With the advent of the first GEs, there was severe whinging by them, as unreformed student-types, that a jacket and tie at weekends was definitely OTT. A notice appeared from the PMC that from the following Saturday, a v-neck sweater over shirt and tie would be acceptable at weekends until 1900 hrs. Overwhelmed with excitement, and with Trenchard doing barrel-rolls in his grave, I made a special trip to M&S in Grantham to buy a sweater. Come Sat lunchtime, resplendent in the new kit, I strolled down to the dining room, only to be stopped at the door by the FS who said "Where do you think you are going dressed like that?" Me: "It's OK, FS, the rules have changed." FS: "The new rules only apply to officers (ie GEs), and you ain't one, so f*** off and get changed into a jacket". End of democracy. SNAFU.
You ask when did Forage caps and No 1s stop? You might also ask when did berets and No 2s stop. I have a picture on my uncle in his barathea No 2s and beret.
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Multitudes of complaints eventually, sometimes, got the Staish to relent and orders were issued to the SWO to get the SRO out pronto. Once the restrictions were relaxed to summer dress (hairy battledress, shirt sleeves neatly rolled to the elbow and tie tucked in somewhere mid chest) that was the cue for it to start snowing!
(hairy battledress, shirt sleeves neatly rolled to the elbow and tie tucked in somewhere mid chest
(hairy battledress, shirt sleeves neatly rolled to the elbow and tie tucked in somewhere mid chest
