Williams Garage Fire
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Williams Garage Fire
Don't shut the thread it is in a way on topic, anyone remember the people that suffered injuries in Germany when crash and smash went to recover the Harrier that went in and the shards of carbon fibre that had been burnt literally shredded their lungs ? ....
Do you think they are unaware of the hazards posed by burnt carbon fibre shards? as they are seen wandering around the garages here unprotected and in one picture i have seen you can see them removing burnt nose cones etc.
Formula 1 Photo Gallery | Sky Sports
Do you think they are unaware of the hazards posed by burnt carbon fibre shards? as they are seen wandering around the garages here unprotected and in one picture i have seen you can see them removing burnt nose cones etc.
Formula 1 Photo Gallery | Sky Sports
MMMF ( man made mineral fibre) and the consequences following an aircraft accident are well know, certainly amongst the emergency services and is regarded as the modern day asbestosis. Once in your body, it doesn't come out!
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Yes, I've wondered about this.
I certainly remember a Harrier crash in Denmark, the first carbon winged one we lost, IIRC. An environmental hazard zone of some sort was placed around it; I remember reading an article about it in Air Clues by the chap in charge of the clean up.
It all went quiet after that and despite a few others being lost the same fuss never seemed to be made about the subsequent crash sites.
I certainly remember a Harrier crash in Denmark, the first carbon winged one we lost, IIRC. An environmental hazard zone of some sort was placed around it; I remember reading an article about it in Air Clues by the chap in charge of the clean up.
It all went quiet after that and despite a few others being lost the same fuss never seemed to be made about the subsequent crash sites.
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Spain fireman
Looking at the pictures looks like a poor showing by the spainish firemen - the pit crews had to tackle fire in short and tee shirts with all that technology at teh circuit you would have thought a fire engine would have been on the scene abit sooner
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An interesting link is here: http://www.tc.faa.gov/its/worldpac/techrpt/ar98-34.pdf
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The effects of inhalation and exposure to polymer composites released in dust form or in the smoke plume of a crashed aircraft are recognised to have a similar effect on the body to asbestos, although the exact long term effects are not yet fully understood.
Needless to say it is not advisable to get a gob full of the stuff or expose any body part if possible. All firefighters on the MOD estate and especially on flying units are trained and equipped to deal with the hazard without compromising the speed and urgency of the response and also to decontam or contain the polymer contamination on rescued aircrew, if conditions allow.
Any initial involvement from off station local authority fire services will likely result in a full blown hazmat incident turnout.
Needless to say it is not advisable to get a gob full of the stuff or expose any body part if possible. All firefighters on the MOD estate and especially on flying units are trained and equipped to deal with the hazard without compromising the speed and urgency of the response and also to decontam or contain the polymer contamination on rescued aircrew, if conditions allow.
Any initial involvement from off station local authority fire services will likely result in a full blown hazmat incident turnout.
The last Harrier to crash at Laarbruch landed upside down in a ball of flames on the side of the runway (Pilot got out injured but okay) closing the airfield for quite some while until a clean up was achieved...
The local Fire Orders were changed to reflect wind direction as to which muster points to use (Go upwind from the fire/crash site) and Crash Orders were changed to state that NO-ONE moved towards the wreckage without some form of face mask and cartridge-based respiratory filtration.
The clean up lasted or three weeks and wrote-off three sweeper/cleaner vehicles - so contaminated they were transported to UK for cleaning / restoration / scrapping (dont know which)
The local Fire Orders were changed to reflect wind direction as to which muster points to use (Go upwind from the fire/crash site) and Crash Orders were changed to state that NO-ONE moved towards the wreckage without some form of face mask and cartridge-based respiratory filtration.
The clean up lasted or three weeks and wrote-off three sweeper/cleaner vehicles - so contaminated they were transported to UK for cleaning / restoration / scrapping (dont know which)
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the pit crews had to tackle fire in short and tee shirts
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It was the smoke that got me, all I could think is if there is Carbon Fibre burning in there which may account for the thick black smoke, they obviously had no inclination of the effects it can cause, one just hopes someone in the team is aware of what has been learnt through service accidents.. The pictures show them walking around the garage post fire again not wearing any protective equipment.
Hopefully it was just rubber and parts of the garage burning, for all of their sakes.
.
Hopefully it was just rubber and parts of the garage burning, for all of their sakes.
.
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th May 2012 at 21:06.
Even rubber can have its hazards. I recall some years ago a warning to emergency services to be aware that certain rubber components in the braking and suspension system of a certain French make of car if exposed to the correct temperature in a fire could give of a caustic substance that would burn skin badly.
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I would guess that as it was some time after the end of the race,
all pit crew and others had stood down and taken off all the protective
clothing they wear.
You only have to look at the photos of pit crew in action to see
that everyone is wearing full suits including what looks like fire
retardant clothing underneath.
However that doesn't negate the fact that fire services didn't
seem to respond.
The 2nd last photo, left hand side on the page in the link below shows fire hoses being used but by F1 crew, not fire fighters.
Spanish Grand Prix 2012 horror: 16 injured when fire broke out in Williams team's garage | Mail Online
all pit crew and others had stood down and taken off all the protective
clothing they wear.
You only have to look at the photos of pit crew in action to see
that everyone is wearing full suits including what looks like fire
retardant clothing underneath.
However that doesn't negate the fact that fire services didn't
seem to respond.
The 2nd last photo, left hand side on the page in the link below shows fire hoses being used but by F1 crew, not fire fighters.
Spanish Grand Prix 2012 horror: 16 injured when fire broke out in Williams team's garage | Mail Online
Last edited by 500N; 14th May 2012 at 21:36.
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I watched this as it happened live, absoulutely awful!! 
Although unfortunately, someone got 40% burns but no-body got killed which is the main thing!!
I hate talking about this but reminds me of when the WTC towers came down and when the fire crews/police/port authority and paramedics were searching through the rubble, I watched a programme a while back about later in life and where they are now. People have died due to the exposure of the chemicals inhaled that day...my point is that I hope no-one suffers later in life from this event at the weekend either as there were equally harmful chemicals in the air
Although unfortunately, someone got 40% burns but no-body got killed which is the main thing!!
I hate talking about this but reminds me of when the WTC towers came down and when the fire crews/police/port authority and paramedics were searching through the rubble, I watched a programme a while back about later in life and where they are now. People have died due to the exposure of the chemicals inhaled that day...my point is that I hope no-one suffers later in life from this event at the weekend either as there were equally harmful chemicals in the air
It certainly looks like a decent portion of the car's bodywork has been burned away.
Plenty more high-res images here Williams F1 - Fire at Williams garage
Plenty more high-res images here Williams F1 - Fire at Williams garage
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I have no idea if there was a rear entrance to that location but looking at my recording the first flames appeared 279 minutes into the footage, the very first 'proper' fire engine arrived at the front of that garage 394 minutes into this recording some FIFTEEN minutes after those first flames. Yes there were pick-up trucks that arrived with hand operated fire extinguishers but the much larger, better equipped tenders were not at the front of that garage for a considerable period of time.
Was there access from the rear of those garages? I have no idea and I am certainly not going to, speculate, but MUCH respect to all the Formula One team members that assisted to put out that fire.
Was there access from the rear of those garages? I have no idea and I am certainly not going to, speculate, but MUCH respect to all the Formula One team members that assisted to put out that fire.
I agree the front it largely untouched, I was looking more at the bodywork behind the headbox. There seems to be quite an unnatural edge to the remaining bodywork there but that may well be where the rear piece lifts off.
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glojo. there was a back door, the bbc commentary team were walking towards it when the fire broke out and hung back while the cameraman went in close! Jake Humphries was rightly concerned about the hazard presented by the thick black acrid smoke pouring out of the entrance. There was no sign of an effective on site fire team arriving there very quickly either although para medics seemed to get there after a few minutes. Various f1 team members were dragging hoses and extinguishers in much as they were at the front. People were obviously being affected by smoke, the coughing is clearly audible on the video. Also of concern I would think is the extinguisher dry powder that several team members were plastered in, they must have inhaled that as well.
I can't help wondering why the garages haven't got some kind of fire suppression system, quick don smoke hoods hanging in the garages might have been useful as well. As far as protective clothing is concerned, they only seem to wear it during the race. During practice they dress down a bit for comfort I suppose. Bit odd really the risks have to be similar.
It was impressive to see everyone jumping in though, they aren't stupid people and must have been aware of the risk from fire and smoke. Well done I say, brave effort and I hope they get away with it.
I can't help wondering why the garages haven't got some kind of fire suppression system, quick don smoke hoods hanging in the garages might have been useful as well. As far as protective clothing is concerned, they only seem to wear it during the race. During practice they dress down a bit for comfort I suppose. Bit odd really the risks have to be similar.
It was impressive to see everyone jumping in though, they aren't stupid people and must have been aware of the risk from fire and smoke. Well done I say, brave effort and I hope they get away with it.
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Stuff:
I don't think any of the body work on that car has burned away. Most of the car itself is made of Carbon Fibre, so if the body work was burning you'd expect the rest to be affected as well. It looks like the engine cover was removed beforehand. Other shots show the wings intact under the dust/extinguisher powder.
This paper model of last year's Red Bull shows similar curves in the engine cover and structure underneath the bodywork.
AFAIK there was only one car (Senna's) in the William's garages at the time but the fire was mainly in a far corner on the other side of the garage in Maldonado's side.
I don't think any of the body work on that car has burned away. Most of the car itself is made of Carbon Fibre, so if the body work was burning you'd expect the rest to be affected as well. It looks like the engine cover was removed beforehand. Other shots show the wings intact under the dust/extinguisher powder.
This paper model of last year's Red Bull shows similar curves in the engine cover and structure underneath the bodywork.
AFAIK there was only one car (Senna's) in the William's garages at the time but the fire was mainly in a far corner on the other side of the garage in Maldonado's side.