bighead

I think that is a disgrace that people are looking at changing the WSOp pay scales again, having just been passed by a very expensive and time consuming SDSR.

It seems that the old ALM pay scale was only put up to the higher pay band in line with the AEOps due to the fact that they could be called upon to be a SAR Winchman Paramedic, hence fulfilling the technical/educational criteria.

With the upcoming demise of RAF SAR it seems that the argument they used to move pay scales is no longer relevant.

Although SH is more of a manual job it is ridiculous to penalise them when they do more on deployed ops than the rest of the RAF. I don't know if it is fair now they are all WSOPs to stream them into different jobs on different pay scales.

Even with the immanent withdrawal from Afghanistan, surly we are too far down WSOp line of change to undo this for future recruits, by "bean stealer's" working in "town".

St Johns Wort

I would think it unlikely that the WSOps are being ‘targeted’, more likely that it is the 5 yearly pay review for the branch. If that is indeed the case then you should, as a team, put together a convincing case and when individuals are selected for interview, they are all singing from the same hymn sheet. If you present a solid case your command structure can fight your corner but don’t expect them to do all the work for you.

The Nip

'Although SH is more of a manual job it is ridiculous to penalise them when they do more on deployed ops than the rest of the RAF'

Wow some statement that is. Everyone on Ops contributes what is required of them and to a very high standard. There are also some who, you will never hear about, doing some very valuable and dangerous work. Some of these are very junior and it is also their first time on Ops.

Chinny Crewman

We do not do more on Ops than the rest of the RAF; different than most but no less essential (except the hat police maybe?)

I believe this is the 5 yr review; IIRC the last review recommended that we were placed on the lower band however it was decided that to do so when we were so heavily committed and undermanned would be severely detrimental to morale so we all retained our higher pay banding. Afghan pull out on the horizon, glut of qualified NCA, austerity; I reckon we are going to be down banded. Can't back that up but this is a rumour site!

Tiger_mate

The worse that can happen to you is mark-time pay as they cannot lower your basic rate once you have been in receipt of it. It will effect new guys upon completion of training and will do nothing for overall morale. The trouble with crewmen in the eyes of the system is that as SNCOs few of you have leadership or management responsibility (outside an airframe) and empowerment of Masters has done little to dilute that perception. A few guys sitting down and evaluating exactly what you do that impresses any audit of duties should not be too difficult but the flip side of this is that military guys all take their skills for granted and do not like flag waving.

It could be worse, and I dont intend to voice more options to the blunties who read pprune.

ratty1

So would that just be the old ALM crewmen or would it include the AEOp and Air Engs that went over to the Cmn RW specialization?

GrumpyGramps

I seem to remember it was the other way around. I PVR'd in 1989 after 30 years service because as a Master AEOp I was down-banded to match ALMs. The accountants thought all AEOps had an easy job sat on their backsides in Nimrods so didn't justiy Band 7 pay. As for the other comment 'SH is more of a manual job' as an ex SH crewman I asure you opeating in a rough sea on the end of a winch, wearing a rubber suit etc was a darned sight harder than any humping & dumping I ever did as as a crewman.

Chinny Crewman

We are all WSOps now so it would be everyone I believe irrespective of sub specialisation or current job.

Grumpy; yes that was the case however pay 2000 (?) and other changes since then created 2 pay bands and after the last review circa 2007/8 all NCA being classed as WSOps were placed on the higher one. There had been some disparity between the old specialisations before that.

Edited to reply to Grumpy.

Willard Whyte

Got a job?

Good.

Now, STFU.

Chinny Crewman

You really shouldn't bother after a couple of drinks Willard it just makes you come across as rather juvenile.

minigundiplomat

This does seem to fit with the theory that they want new blood in for 12 years and then out before they incur any significant pension liability.

Not sure where knowledge and experience appear on the balance sheet, but hey.....

Door Slider

Well that's a rumour I have not heard and one I don't believe either, next you will be telling adminers and chefs will be down banded so techies get paid more than the other ground trades......

Gene Genie

How will they afford their beach ice creams then?

IAMTHEMEAT

Rumour has it the fella who bought the ice creams doesn't get any flying pay either due to his PVR!

Motleycallsign

Don't forget Gramps, that on SH we also had a secondary role as SAR in certain areas of operations. Certainly during Ops in NI. The Chinook fleet also helped in recovery post the Air India crash off SW Ireland. So chaps a possible inclusion in your fight to keep the rate you're on at present. Of course you will be pitted against the role of the WSOp on Voyager, and the Strat/Tac FW disciplines.

The Old Fat One

Speaking as some one who knows a great deal about the history and practice of AEOps/WSOPs pay banding reviews...may I offer a little advice and perspective....

Spot on...this will work (as it did in 2001)
Good advice from the two-winged master race. Again, we did this in 2001.

Keep anyone who thinks like this, talks like this, or behaves like this a million miles for the evaluators. In the 1989 fiasco, no attention or preparation was accorded to those interviewed, with the resultant big fat fail. And yes I know that "technically" those chosen for interview are "randomly" selected, which is why you get the branch sponsor/desk officer/flight commanders onside...again as we did in 2001.

Bottom line, you can line up all the key players, work as a team, and really go for it...or you can be downbanded.

Willard Whyte...what sort of D1ckhead are u?