RAAF F-35 delayed purchase?
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Why not on the Islands the US are going to use in the Pacific ?
Since the US are going to be there anyway !
We have plenty of places on the West / North coast that could
easily be used for Nuclear Subs, it just needs the will to do it.
Since the US are going to be there anyway !
We have plenty of places on the West / North coast that could
easily be used for Nuclear Subs, it just needs the will to do it.
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Adopting a hold stance on the F35 program and await program maturity is a sound decision IMO.
The polies should convert the wired-for-but-not-with to G's and buy another batch of Super Hornets to preserve the fatigue life of the Classic fleet and provide improved front-line capability and 4+ Gen training outcomes that will better prepare the RAAF for the eventual buy of a 5th Gen system.
Ditch the Spartan/C295 buy and procure a few more C130J's and CH-47F's.
Take the option to buy the offered Airbus A330 (KC30) test frame.
Submarines - all our neighbours to the north are either expanding their submarine fleet of are in the process of procuring them.
The Navy must be given clear guidance that MOTS is the way to proceed when procuring these boats. C17, Super Hornet and CH-47D's were all successful procurement programs as the items were MOTS.
Nuclear does not seem to be an option as the pollies do not have a taste for establishing a Nuclear Industry in Australia to support a fleet of SSN's.
That leaves the only politically favourable option of a MOTS boat being an SSK, if we're talking SSK's then there's only two manufacturers, the French or Germans, both of their offered boats could be assembled in SA.
My bet would be on a German boat as a good solution for Australia - providing we can get enough Submariners, but then again (in pollie land) what do the Germans know about Das Boat?
The polies should convert the wired-for-but-not-with to G's and buy another batch of Super Hornets to preserve the fatigue life of the Classic fleet and provide improved front-line capability and 4+ Gen training outcomes that will better prepare the RAAF for the eventual buy of a 5th Gen system.
Ditch the Spartan/C295 buy and procure a few more C130J's and CH-47F's.
Take the option to buy the offered Airbus A330 (KC30) test frame.
Submarines - all our neighbours to the north are either expanding their submarine fleet of are in the process of procuring them.
The Navy must be given clear guidance that MOTS is the way to proceed when procuring these boats. C17, Super Hornet and CH-47D's were all successful procurement programs as the items were MOTS.
Nuclear does not seem to be an option as the pollies do not have a taste for establishing a Nuclear Industry in Australia to support a fleet of SSN's.
That leaves the only politically favourable option of a MOTS boat being an SSK, if we're talking SSK's then there's only two manufacturers, the French or Germans, both of their offered boats could be assembled in SA.
My bet would be on a German boat as a good solution for Australia - providing we can get enough Submariners, but then again (in pollie land) what do the Germans know about Das Boat?
I wouldn't worry about subs (or any other major defence program) with this Labor Government.
The only reason they are talking tough about having 12 subs and building them in SA is that this bunch of vandals don't have to fund them in the forward estimates. Hence the typical delaying tactic of another white paper and report into what sub we should have (no doubt given to fair work Australia to do so its take 5 times longer than it should). Thus making sure Labor can further cook the books. They have NO intent of putting billion aside for this, a pultry 235mil of taxpayers money will buy them the time they need.
I heard the Labor lack of defence minister today scoffing at the likelihood of any invasion of the mainland. As unlikely as it is it is the very thing this government should be preparing defence for, not as a source of funding for dole bludgers.
And to keep the aviation theme, so much for the Bou replacement program...again
The only reason they are talking tough about having 12 subs and building them in SA is that this bunch of vandals don't have to fund them in the forward estimates. Hence the typical delaying tactic of another white paper and report into what sub we should have (no doubt given to fair work Australia to do so its take 5 times longer than it should). Thus making sure Labor can further cook the books. They have NO intent of putting billion aside for this, a pultry 235mil of taxpayers money will buy them the time they need.
I heard the Labor lack of defence minister today scoffing at the likelihood of any invasion of the mainland. As unlikely as it is it is the very thing this government should be preparing defence for, not as a source of funding for dole bludgers.
And to keep the aviation theme, so much for the Bou replacement program...again
Personally I think it's a wise decision to delay, it would be better if we cut it away all together. There are several gen 4.5+ aircraft that I think would be a better fit for the RAAF, the F-15SE Silent Eagle and the Super Hornet with the International Roadmap improvements to name two. Both are proven designs that provide 80% of the F-35's capability at half the price.
Does Australia actually need the capability that the F-35 promises?
Does Australia actually need the capability that the F-35 promises?
Evertonian
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I read somewhere, possibly a thread on here, that the F22 is designed for a generation of Soviet fighter that never eventuated. Along a similar vein, is the F35 a bit of "overkill" in this region? As ol-mate says, wouldn't the F-15SE suffice?
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After last night's budget, the ADF will have to make do with whatever is already on the flight line - so long as the pilots are willing to sit in an unpowered cockpit making aeroplane noises with their lips. Even that won't work for some, as I'm led to believe the new budget will see off early quite a bit of the equipment already on the books. Continuation training? What's that? We need those dollars to hand out to people with kids in high school.
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"We need those dollars to hand out to people with kids in high school."
or foreign aid.
The ADF got right royally done over in the budget.
Don't expect Labour to be in Gov't after the next election.
or foreign aid.
The ADF got right royally done over in the budget.
Don't expect Labour to be in Gov't after the next election.
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The base readiness upgrade (construction) program for JSF appears not to have received any funding in the coming year either.
And I can't find any mention of the HATS (Helicopter Aircrew Training System) project either. Tenders for that closed mid last month but it appears there's no funding shown in any budget documents, or at least none that I can see.
And I can't find any mention of the HATS (Helicopter Aircrew Training System) project either. Tenders for that closed mid last month but it appears there's no funding shown in any budget documents, or at least none that I can see.
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Buster wrote;
'I read somewhere, possibly a thread on here, that the F22 is designed for a generation of Soviet fighter that never eventuated. Along a similar vein, is the F35 a bit of "overkill" in this region? As ol-mate says, wouldn't the F-15SE suffice?'
An updated version of the F-15E seems to fit the bill for the South Koreans and Singaporean Air Forces. Both of those Air Forces are no slouch either.
If the forth coming Russian-Indian and Chinese 5th Gen aircraft capability projections are to be believed then an eventual successor to any F15/F35/Super Hornet fleet will be required.
It's going to be a while yet for the 5th Gens to be taken as posing any sort of threat to Australia's National Security IMO that requires Australia to sign on to the JSF program at such an early stage.
'I read somewhere, possibly a thread on here, that the F22 is designed for a generation of Soviet fighter that never eventuated. Along a similar vein, is the F35 a bit of "overkill" in this region? As ol-mate says, wouldn't the F-15SE suffice?'
An updated version of the F-15E seems to fit the bill for the South Koreans and Singaporean Air Forces. Both of those Air Forces are no slouch either.
If the forth coming Russian-Indian and Chinese 5th Gen aircraft capability projections are to be believed then an eventual successor to any F15/F35/Super Hornet fleet will be required.
It's going to be a while yet for the 5th Gens to be taken as posing any sort of threat to Australia's National Security IMO that requires Australia to sign on to the JSF program at such an early stage.
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Clearly Labour aren't worried about p!ssing off the relatively few uniformed people in the ADF. But add in Defence civilians and those employed by contractors with Defence contracts and you would come up with a significant number of p!ssed off people. Election now!!!!
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The polies should convert the wired-for-but-not-with to G's...
...and buy another batch of Super Hornets to preserve the fatigue life of the Classic fleet and provide improved front-line capability and 4+ Gen training outcomes that will better prepare the RAAF for the eventual buy of a 5th Gen system.
Ditch the Spartan/C295 buy and procure a few more C130J's and CH-47F's.
Take the option to buy the offered Airbus A330 (KC30) test frame.
The Navy must be given clear guidance that MOTS is the way to proceed when procuring these boats. Nuclear does not seem to be an option as the pollies do not have a taste for establishing a Nuclear Industry in Australia to support a fleet of SSN's.
That leaves the only politically favourable option of a MOTS boat being an SSK, if we're talking SSK's then there's only two manufacturers, the French or Germans, both of their offered boats could be assembled in SA.
As ol-mate says, wouldn't the F-15SE suffice?
Most pilots I know wouldn't want to be flying F-15s in 2030 either
And re the F-22, it's a great jet...when it works! Anecdotal reports suggest availability is very low (<50%), and the small USAF fleet needs a ~$10bn upgrade to improve capability and availability which is unlikely to be forthcoming in the near future.
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FA18
Could you please expand on this
"c) we wouldn't relinquish sovereignty by sending nuke boats back to the US or UK for overhaul/refuel."
1. Why would we be relinquishing sovereignty ?
2. What would be the problem sending a boat back to the US for refurb / maintenance if that's where it came from ?
Especially if / since we have such a good relationship with the US
and able to jump on the back of their nuke sub facilities.
Could you please expand on this
"c) we wouldn't relinquish sovereignty by sending nuke boats back to the US or UK for overhaul/refuel."
1. Why would we be relinquishing sovereignty ?
2. What would be the problem sending a boat back to the US for refurb / maintenance if that's where it came from ?
Especially if / since we have such a good relationship with the US
and able to jump on the back of their nuke sub facilities.
Most pilots I know wouldn't want to be flying F-15s in 2030 either
And since then, the Americans are increasing their presence in Australia, which eliminates any realistic Fortress Australia threats which was part of the argument for a 100 aircraft JSF fleet.
Looks to me as though there will be emerging arguments within the next few years for an actual reduction in RAAF fighter squadrons.
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Gnadenberg
On the contrary...the US aren't "increasing their presence in Australia", just using our bases and ranges for 4-6 months a year for training as they get squeezed out of Japan. I believe with the US's pivot towards the Pacific, the onus is on us even more to step up and offer our fair share.
And since then, the Americans are increasing their presence in Australia, which eliminates any realistic Fortress Australia threats which was part of the argument for a 100 aircraft JSF fleet.
Looks to me as though there will be emerging arguments within the next few years for an actual reduction in RAAF fighter squadrons.
Looks to me as though there will be emerging arguments within the next few years for an actual reduction in RAAF fighter squadrons.
Semantics.
The presence is significant and public debate will lend toward cashing in on it.
Future problems with the JSF will see more critical and rationale debate on how many of these types of fighters we need. I don't think there is a good argument for 100 anymore. The leadership of the RAAF will need to become more creative and they have ballsed it up thus far.
The presence is significant and public debate will lend toward cashing in on it.
Future problems with the JSF will see more critical and rationale debate on how many of these types of fighters we need. I don't think there is a good argument for 100 anymore. The leadership of the RAAF will need to become more creative and they have ballsed it up thus far.
So it starts. We need 100 x JSF and 12 x Growlers. Nice!
'Second best ... gets you killed': Airforce Chief wants more JSFs
Growler could prove a winner: RAAF chief
'Second best ... gets you killed': Airforce Chief wants more JSFs
Growler could prove a winner: RAAF chief
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I'm a little unsure as to where these fighters are going to fight...........
In China?
Indonesia (which is a bloody big place...)??
Surely medium -long range anti-ship strike is the only LIKELY mission the RAAF will ever need
In China?
Indonesia (which is a bloody big place...)??
Surely medium -long range anti-ship strike is the only LIKELY mission the RAAF will ever need