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best machine the RAF never had

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best machine the RAF never had

Old 3rd Mar 2020, 04:50
  #141 (permalink)  
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turning the idea around these would have been great exports:








not so much this??






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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 05:09
  #142 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LowObservable View Post
A million years ago in a galaxy far, far away, when Phoon was still "Eurofighter 2000" and in trouble at many levels, there was a plot to gap-fill A2A with recently modded and lightly used F-16A ADFs - to be followed by co-development of the delta-wing F-16 variant with the diverterless inlet and LO nozzle. It had gas for days and carried all weapons conformally or semi-conformally. BAE Systems were not happy bunnies, the USAF wanted to be all-stealth (how''s that working out for ya?), and the upper Pentagon levels saw it as a threat to the nascent JAST, later JSF. The avionics ended up in the Block 60.

Was this Michael Portillo?

Never heard of that development of the F-16 - who was planning this?

I always thought the F-16E/XL was by far the best version - apart from sustained turn it was an order of magnitude better than the standard machine.
Think the USAF missed a big trick not making this the standard buy.

Was the delta a development of the XL?
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 06:41
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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F-111K....awesome piece of kit
Except for the escape mechanism I understand.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 07:18
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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"turning the idea around these would have been great exports:"

I seem to remember that the USA had better aircraft, years earlier than any of the ones pictured........................
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 07:47
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"turning the idea around these would have been great exports:"

I seem to remember that the USA had better aircraft, years earlier than any of the ones pictured........................
Didn't the USMC want the Buccaneer but Wilson blocked the export? I'm fairly sure that it was the same with the Marineflieger. I seem to recall that the Saffers got theirs because the deal was already done.
I may be wrong, I may be working on received wisdom.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 07:50
  #146 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"turning the idea around these would have been great exports:"

I seem to remember that the USA had better aircraft, years earlier than any of the ones pictured........................
Intruder - really?

Maybe as a weapon system but as an airframe not in a million years.


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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 08:55
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well.... the Intruder was proven in serious combat over 30 years - can't have been all that bad

but to some extent they were tasked with different missions - the A-6 was designed to fight & support another Korean War (and did in Vietnam) - the Buc was an anti-ship strike aircraft designed from the outset to drop small A weapons - the fact that they were later re-roled to land attack was really due to financial constraints
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 09:02
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Asturias

So was the Tornado GR4 but you don’t often hear people saying what an amazing airframe it was.

For the record, before people get precious, I am a fan of the GR4 but we must all accept it was more a case of crews doing a great job to get the best out of the platform rather than it being a world beating airframe.

BV
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 10:12
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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The Vauxhall Astra Estate with a Radio!
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 12:18
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by typerated View Post
Was this Michael Portillo?

Never heard of that development of the F-16 - who was planning this?

I always thought the F-16E/XL was by far the best version - apart from sustained turn it was an order of magnitude better than the standard machine.
Think the USAF missed a big trick not making this the standard buy.

Was the delta a development of the XL?
It drew some inspiration from the XL but the wing was more F-22-like - the XL wing originated with SST research at NASA. Also, the XL program had ended with the selection of the F-15E for the Dual Role Fighter in 1984, and this later design originated around 1993.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 17:16
  #151 (permalink)  
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P 1154 supersonic harrier.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 19:29
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Probably worse endurance than the P1.b
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Old 4th Mar 2020, 09:42
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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And they never managed to make PCB work, even when trying again in the 80's, so the P1154 is a non starter in anyone's book.
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Old 4th Mar 2020, 09:57
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RedhillPhil View Post
Didn't the USMC want the Buccaneer but Wilson blocked the export? I'm fairly sure that it was the same with the Marineflieger. I seem to recall that the Saffers got theirs because the deal was already done.
I may be wrong, I may be working on received wisdom.
Correct -

"Early in the Buccaneer programme, the US Navy had expressed mild interest in the aircraft, but quickly moved on to the development of its comparable Grumman A-6 Intruder. The West German Navy showed a greater interest, and considered replacing its Hawker Sea Hawks with the type, although it eventually decided on the Lockheed F-104G for its maritime strike requirement, following the bribing of West German government officials in the Lockheed bribery scandals."
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Old 4th Mar 2020, 18:15
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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I really wish there was more of those ‘What might have been, artists’ on here.
Seriously I do.
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Old 4th Mar 2020, 18:55
  #156 (permalink)  
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You mean like this.....



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Old 4th Mar 2020, 18:57
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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For those of a certain boys toys age in the 1960s.

Fireball XL5 + Blue Steel !


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Old 4th Mar 2020, 19:05
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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When TSR2 was cancelled, a Spey powered Mirage IVK was offered but the RAF preferred to go for the F-111K.


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Old 4th Mar 2020, 19:06
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC, RAFEngO74to09
Absolutely spot on target, Folks
Thank you, for your time and trouble
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Old 4th Mar 2020, 19:12
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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F-111K would have been great - especially if equipped with Pave Tack - the results during Op DESERT STORM speak for themselves + able to run fighters out of fuel at low level.




Plus - if the F-111B had gone ahead for the USN, F-111B for North Sea AD instead of Tornado F3 and multi-role ASuW as well.



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