Clink-clank...another medal
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I used to give a little grin when I recall the A1 QFI who had me thrown out of CFS because I wasn't "the sort of officer he wanted" signed a chipmunk out on his last day of service in wind just over twice the linit and tipped it on its nose
Now I just feel a bit sorry for him
I have known for a while I'm not immortal and now I think I might not even be perfect
Now I just feel a bit sorry for him
I have known for a while I'm not immortal and now I think I might not even be perfect
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So what is the consensus now regarding using your rank
in civvy street ?
in civvy street ?
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Yes, like Australia, too small for tall poppies.
The military here has a much higher profile now and the last 10 years
due to the wars we have been fighting plus the two VC winners.
I notice the media here always show and intorduce the media commentators
by rank and mostly address them by rank.
I haven't met any of the recent one's - Cosgrove, Cantwell, Molan so don't know if they use their rank.
The military here has a much higher profile now and the last 10 years
due to the wars we have been fighting plus the two VC winners.
I notice the media here always show and intorduce the media commentators
by rank and mostly address them by rank.
I haven't met any of the recent one's - Cosgrove, Cantwell, Molan so don't know if they use their rank.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Having retired from the military as a Flt Lt and from the commercial as a Captain, I don't use anything except Mr. However, if I used Captain (which is still the address on my BALPA magazine delivery) that could be Army, Navy, commercial aviation or maritime. Worlds of difference.
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Sounds almost RyanAir.
If I used all my entitled titles, I (and I suspect many of us) would have more letters before and after my name than I have in my name (and I have two middle names).
Reminds me of the Monty Python doctor with DLitt (All Other Places in Canada except Medicine Hat) in a nameplate which circled the room.
If people know your background, there's no point telling them your titles. If they don't, and you don't have a big enough reputation to precede you, then there's also no point telling them.
Besides, everyone can have a lot of fun watching pseuds make fools of themselves.
..and only the praise of the praiseworthy is worth having.
Reminds me of the Monty Python doctor with DLitt (All Other Places in Canada except Medicine Hat) in a nameplate which circled the room.
If people know your background, there's no point telling them your titles. If they don't, and you don't have a big enough reputation to precede you, then there's also no point telling them.
Besides, everyone can have a lot of fun watching pseuds make fools of themselves.
..and only the praise of the praiseworthy is worth having.
Thread drift continuing, and although still rather surprised at NutLoose's curious response to someone who it now appears can't have completely ignored him, because he said "... can I take some", then, when not unreasonably asked he was, introduced himself with a reply which seems to put his request and his presence in the hangar into some sort of equally reasonable context, I must say that it has always seemed much more fun not to let on about rank or rating achieved, or even that one has served. This has invariably led to some very humorous situations and much, sometimes embarrassed, laughter in the long run when one's cover is blown - and never a hint of rudeness or chippiness.
And yes, I have been on the other end of such situations, including meeting and chatting informally whilst very junior with someone I was led to believe was a middle-aged civilian whom I subsequently discovered - and not from him - that he was a serving admiral and, to come back to medals, a VC to boot!
Jack
And yes, I have been on the other end of such situations, including meeting and chatting informally whilst very junior with someone I was led to believe was a middle-aged civilian whom I subsequently discovered - and not from him - that he was a serving admiral and, to come back to medals, a VC to boot!
Jack
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For what it's worth Debrett's says this:
How to address Retired Officers of The RAF - Forms of Address by Profession, Royal Air Force
The old-man is an ex-Medical Branch Wg Cdr doctor and his full title (plus array of medical qualifications) would take up a fair chunk of business card. Since he's been a civilian he uses 'Mr' almost exclusively. He never uses 'Dr' and certainly not when travelling; presumably to avoid finding himself cast in some kind of Leslie Nielsen role from 'Airplane' in the event of an in-flight calamity.
As an aside was it B.H. Liddell-Hart who wound up some of the establishment by referring to himself as 'Captain' post-retirement?
How to address Retired Officers of The RAF - Forms of Address by Profession, Royal Air Force
The old-man is an ex-Medical Branch Wg Cdr doctor and his full title (plus array of medical qualifications) would take up a fair chunk of business card. Since he's been a civilian he uses 'Mr' almost exclusively. He never uses 'Dr' and certainly not when travelling; presumably to avoid finding himself cast in some kind of Leslie Nielsen role from 'Airplane' in the event of an in-flight calamity.
As an aside was it B.H. Liddell-Hart who wound up some of the establishment by referring to himself as 'Captain' post-retirement?
Beagle, he walked into my hangar without a by your leave! spotted some screws on a bench, walked straight over to them ignoring me and said Ahh just what I need, can I take some, I asked who he was, got the AVM Retd Drivel, I then told him he was actually a Mr and would he mind fecking orrf..
Incidentally, why did you consider it to be 'your' hangar? Did you own it?
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Why could you not have simply said "Excuse me, may I help you?" in a tone which would have left him in no doubt as to your authority. Your response was ignorant and totally lacking in manners, irrespective of whether or not you considered his previous rank merited due respect.
Incidentally, why did you consider it to be 'your' hangar? Did you own it?
Incidentally, why did you consider it to be 'your' hangar? Did you own it?
I've no idea.
Anyway, I suggest that it would have been far more satisfying to have had AVM (Retd.) Hardly-Worthitt going pink with embarrassment at being caught like a naughty child raiding the sweet tin than belittling his former rank.
Anyway, I suggest that it would have been far more satisfying to have had AVM (Retd.) Hardly-Worthitt going pink with embarrassment at being caught like a naughty child raiding the sweet tin than belittling his former rank.
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Looking at Jamieone's link to Debretts on Use of an Officer's Rank Without His Surname
Debretts says
Surely Debretts have not made a mistake?
Flt Lt Bloggs
RAF Little Airfield Still Open
Dear Air Commodore.....
Debretts says
In social correspondence certain officers may be addressed at the beginning of a letter by their rank alone, e.g. 'Dear Admiral' in place of 'Dear Admiral Smith', but some officers dislike this practice, especially when used by those outside the Services.
In any event this practice is limited to the following ranks:.
.
.
.
Royal Air Force: Flight-Lieutenant (shortened to 'Air Commodore'); Air Vice-Marshal and Air Chief Marshal (shortened to 'Air Marshal'), and Marshal of the Royal Air Force (shortened to 'Marshal').
In any event this practice is limited to the following ranks:.
.
.
.
Royal Air Force: Flight-Lieutenant (shortened to 'Air Commodore'); Air Vice-Marshal and Air Chief Marshal (shortened to 'Air Marshal'), and Marshal of the Royal Air Force (shortened to 'Marshal').
Flt Lt Bloggs
RAF Little Airfield Still Open
Dear Air Commodore.....
"Over here, everyone is "mate""
In deepest rural Lincolnshire the only way to avoid "mate" is to wear a tie, and even then it is not foolproof.
Why do I find "Shag" or "Horse" more acceptable? Funny old world.
Drifting ...............
In deepest rural Lincolnshire the only way to avoid "mate" is to wear a tie, and even then it is not foolproof.
Why do I find "Shag" or "Horse" more acceptable? Funny old world.
Drifting ...............
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I am amazed that no-one knows the rules!
I am NOT ex forces so there is no reason for me to know this but my understanding is that at a certain level you "Carry your rank" into civvy street.
For Royal Navy that rank is Captain, but because Commanders are often promoted on retirement to Captains I think they get it.
I do not know the equivalents for Army and Airforce but if anyone is using the title Captain, then it is navy or its bull5hit (and that goes for ATPL too)
Based on tables of equivalence of Ranks, it looks like
Captain (RN) = Colonel (Army) = Group Captain (RAF) so perhaps these are the ranks that "Carry"?
For Royal Navy that rank is Captain, but because Commanders are often promoted on retirement to Captains I think they get it.
I do not know the equivalents for Army and Airforce but if anyone is using the title Captain, then it is navy or its bull5hit (and that goes for ATPL too)
Based on tables of equivalence of Ranks, it looks like
Captain (RN) = Colonel (Army) = Group Captain (RAF) so perhaps these are the ranks that "Carry"?
Last edited by paull; 19th Apr 2012 at 11:00.
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How to address Retired Officers of The RAF - Forms of Address by Profession,
I am NOT ex forces so there is no reason for me to know this but my understanding is that at a certain level you "Carry your rank" into civvy street.
For Royal Navy that rank is Captain, but because Commanders are often promoted on retirement to Captains I think they get it.
I do not know the equivalents for Army and Airforce but if anyone is using the title Captain, then it is navy or its bull5hit (and that goes for ATPL also)
For Royal Navy that rank is Captain, but because Commanders are often promoted on retirement to Captains I think they get it.
I do not know the equivalents for Army and Airforce but if anyone is using the title Captain, then it is navy or its bull5hit (and that goes for ATPL also)
The practice if promoting on retirement no longer happens and hasn't happened for as long as I can remember it - certainly in the UK military. RN Captains above a certain level of seniority may be appointed Commodore for a specific posting, but unless that 'promotion' is substantiated they will revert back to Captain at the end of the tour.
ISTR that the RN brought the rank of Commodore into line with the 1* ranks of the other two services and made it sustantive in 1997-ish. There was an article just before SDSR which noted that the RN had (at that point) 20 more 1*s than it could find jobs for.
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I'm pretty sure that it's actually Sqn Ldr / Major / Lt Cdr level that you are entitled to use your rank in an honorific sense.
The practice if promoting on retirement no longer happens and hasn't happened for as long as I can remember it - certainly in the UK military. RN Captains above a certain level of seniority may be appointed Commodore for a specific posting, but unless that 'promotion' is substantiated they will revert back to Captain at the end of the tour.
The practice if promoting on retirement no longer happens and hasn't happened for as long as I can remember it - certainly in the UK military. RN Captains above a certain level of seniority may be appointed Commodore for a specific posting, but unless that 'promotion' is substantiated they will revert back to Captain at the end of the tour.
3002. Retention of Rank by Officers on leaving the Active List. Sponsor: RAF Employment Policy
(1) An officer of the regular air force placed on the retired list or on the reserve will be shown in his substantive rank. An officer of the rank of flight lieutenant or above leaving the reserve, or having no reserve liability, may be permitted to use his rank as a courtesy title subject to clauses (7) and (8) and to completion of 3 years service on the Active List.
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My hangar, one man band, was working away never saw him straight off, by that time he was already lifting items off the bench.. was a WTF moment.
Believe me when you get people walk in and start going through your tool kit looking for a screwdriver to do XYZ up you soon start to get peeved to the ignorance of some people, these are my own tools and probably are in the £15,000 plus range, a ratchet screwdriver costs about £60 to replace the last time i looked, top that off with the fact you then have to start tearing aircraft apart because you cannot find it.... so yes one can get a bit short with them. And before you start on about shadow boards etc, believe me the best tool control is to have to buy them yourself, i can look in my tool kits and instantly see when something is missing, everything has it's set place.
Believe me when you get people walk in and start going through your tool kit looking for a screwdriver to do XYZ up you soon start to get peeved to the ignorance of some people, these are my own tools and probably are in the £15,000 plus range, a ratchet screwdriver costs about £60 to replace the last time i looked, top that off with the fact you then have to start tearing aircraft apart because you cannot find it.... so yes one can get a bit short with them. And before you start on about shadow boards etc, believe me the best tool control is to have to buy them yourself, i can look in my tool kits and instantly see when something is missing, everything has it's set place.
