Falklands Lynx
Thread Starter
Falklands Lynx
Does anyone on this forum know why no AAC Lynx AH-1 helicopters were deployed as part of the Falklands task group in 1982? I have tried to find an answer but to no avail. It just seems odd that no Lynx were deployed, but the less capable Gazelle and Scout were.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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In 1982 all of the front line Lynx in service were stationed in Germany and therefore committed to NATO. IIRC no NATO units were released for operations in the Falklands
I was a Lynx pilot in 1982 and I don't think at the time I would have classed it as "more capable".
Later - much later - yes.
I was a Lynx pilot in 1982 and I don't think at the time I would have classed it as "more capable".
Later - much later - yes.
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At the time it was said in the press that the Army Lynx had not been fitted with deicing gear. As someone else implied in another thread a few months ago, that doesn't quite seem to make sense. However I guess its possible that for whatever reason, the Lynx had not passed cold weather trials???
Army Lynx were deployed around 83-84, but the airframe was still under-developed, to coin a phrase, and didn't suit long-distance logistics support. I'm sure one of my learned colleagues may offer more precise numbers, but in the early days of AH1 we were looking at close to 100 man-hours of maint per flying-hour. In comparison to the 7, the AH1 was just bloody awful.
RIP Rog Jones and John Belt.
RIP Rog Jones and John Belt.
Last edited by diginagain; 11th Apr 2012 at 16:20.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the answers so far. An under-developed airframe, maintenance intensive and not necessarily more capable at that time; as well as being committed on the continent. That all seems to explain it. Does anyone know a source/link I can quote on this? (Rather than just proone!).
Wizzard, as a Lynx pilot at the time, were you aware of any operational Lynxes supporting RM Commandos, or were they not yet operating with the type?
Cheers.
Wizzard, as a Lynx pilot at the time, were you aware of any operational Lynxes supporting RM Commandos, or were they not yet operating with the type?
Cheers.
At the time, the Lynx Ground Support Equipment (GSE) development and manufacturing tasks were only just getting under way. Lacking that equipment, having Lynx dispersed around the globe wasn't supportable. Which ties in with the above post about NATO assets.
But there was clearly a contingency plan to send them, because GSE production was ramped up. In those days, most GSE was designed and built in-house, at 3rd line workshops.
But there was clearly a contingency plan to send them, because GSE production was ramped up. In those days, most GSE was designed and built in-house, at 3rd line workshops.
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There were plenty of Navy Lynx down south in '82 and which were far more complex that their Army counterparts. Average flying hours in 6-8 weeks was 150 per airframe. MMH were pretty low as well. As far as GSE is concerned I would have thought that most of the RN kit would have been suitable for the Army version. I suspect one of the reasons was deck space for another helo type.
I flew Lynx AH1's in Hildesheim in '84, we had to re-convert to Scout's for our Falklands tour, then back to Lynx on return to BAOR. Somebody somewhere will have a photo of 'Skid Row', all the broken Lynx Skids from previous tours in the Falklands (a skid graveyard at Murray heights.....
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It wasn't very long after the tail booms had been changed on the ones at Detmold so would you take a cab to war that tried to shake itself to bits when you had a squaddie proof Scout with lots of manpower that knew how to use it and the big hammer to fix it.
Pheasant
You are right -re GSE, but the point I made was that the GSE was being built at a rate commensurate with the production rate of the aircraft themselves; which were bought in relatively small batches. The rate for everything was increased in 1982.
For example, the production output of avionics for RN Lynx was increased 5-fold in the examples I'm familiar with. By 1982 the majority of GSE had been designed (often by apprentices), but was being produced (again by apprentices) as and when their training permitted. In other words, it was a minimum cost exercise, which MoD excelled at (not a criticism!). Nowadays, we don't have such expertise in-house and prefer to pay 10 times as much for less flexibility.
You are right -re GSE, but the point I made was that the GSE was being built at a rate commensurate with the production rate of the aircraft themselves; which were bought in relatively small batches. The rate for everything was increased in 1982.
For example, the production output of avionics for RN Lynx was increased 5-fold in the examples I'm familiar with. By 1982 the majority of GSE had been designed (often by apprentices), but was being produced (again by apprentices) as and when their training permitted. In other words, it was a minimum cost exercise, which MoD excelled at (not a criticism!). Nowadays, we don't have such expertise in-house and prefer to pay 10 times as much for less flexibility.
Ground-handling the grey Lynx is relatively easy, especially over short distances as are often found on HM tubs. As a former groundcrewman on Army Lynx, I cannot imagine that dragging a cab around the dispersals at Murray Heights would have been fun with the 'Westland Wheels'; I shudder to think what carnage would have resulted from using the ML Handler* in the prevailing weather conditions. In 85 the pans were barely big enough to push a Scout or Gazelle onto without fear of it disappearing into the surrounding bog.
*4x 12v/100amp truck batteries and fragile hydraulic pumps, guaranteed to quit without notice - who thought that one up?
*4x 12v/100amp truck batteries and fragile hydraulic pumps, guaranteed to quit without notice - who thought that one up?
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
*4x 12v/100amp truck batteries and fragile hydraulic pumps, guaranteed to quit without notice - who thought that one up?
Possibly one of the reasons for no AH1 going to the Falklands was that the Sqns in Support of 3 Cdo Bde and 5 Inf Bde were still roled with Scout, certainly 3 BAS was equipped with Scout and didnt get Lynx until afterwards.
Not forgetting its ability to randomly open a front jaw and drop the airframe onto the lifting beam! Step forward ML Aviation, we have a winner.
The ML quit with the cab halfway through the doors.
Not 100% certain but I think one of the factors was that although the aircraft was in service, TOW wasn't whereas Scout/SS-11 was. Further, 3 Cdo Bde were the deployed unit with their organic aviation support, 3 BAS equipped with Scout/SS-11. The Bde was reinforced with elements from 8 Field Force in the form of 2 Para, 3 Para, 9 Para Sqn RE with their organic aviation support of one flight of 656 Sqn AAC also equipped with Scout/SS-11. When 5 Field Force deployed, they bought no aviation support as, by means that are lost in military smog, 656 Sqn was by now complete ahead of the unit!