Sacked RAF Liable to Call Up for 18 Years
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The liability for recall is also subject to an appropriate call-out notice being signed by the Defence Secretary and under the terms of RFA96 for a true national emergency (so not just a bit of a NEO or a UN relief mission in Libya). I've never heard that the RN and Army can 'opt out' I don't believe this is true either as terms of Service are well controlled on a tri-Service basis (but I could be wrong).
10. RFA 96 restates the existing call-out powers, but within a new framework of call-out
orders.
11. Thus Her Majesty may make an order authorising call-out:
12. The Secretary of State may make an order authorising call-out:
13. The making of an order also activates the corresponding power under the ReserveForces Act 1980 as amended. The warlike operations power has been extended for the first time to all Reserve Forces. (Under the 1980 Act, it did not apply to ratings of the Royal Naval Reserve, members of the Royal Marines Reserve or to the Royal Auxiliary Air Force).
14. There is a new power, under which the Secretary of State may authorise call-out;
15. This new power is intended to cover peacekeeping, humanitarian and disaster relief operations. The wording is specifically designed to exclude the call-out of Reservists in theevent of civil disorder in the UK. Transitional members of the Reserve Forces cannot be called out under this power.
orders.
11. Thus Her Majesty may make an order authorising call-out:
12. The Secretary of State may make an order authorising call-out:
13. The making of an order also activates the corresponding power under the ReserveForces Act 1980 as amended. The warlike operations power has been extended for the first time to all Reserve Forces. (Under the 1980 Act, it did not apply to ratings of the Royal Naval Reserve, members of the Royal Marines Reserve or to the Royal Auxiliary Air Force).
14. There is a new power, under which the Secretary of State may authorise call-out;
15. This new power is intended to cover peacekeeping, humanitarian and disaster relief operations. The wording is specifically designed to exclude the call-out of Reservists in theevent of civil disorder in the UK. Transitional members of the Reserve Forces cannot be called out under this power.
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Gilbert Blades
Now there's a name I've not heard for a while. He's still practising this is his url for all those who need him...
http://www.wilkinchapman.co.uk/site/profile/gblades
http://www.wilkinchapman.co.uk/site/profile/gblades
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Fox3
I don't know the answer to that one - from here in SW France I could be back in UK inside 12 hours. I doubt however that the RAF would be in desperate need of a 65 year old former Pilot.
I don't know the answer to that one - from here in SW France I could be back in UK inside 12 hours. I doubt however that the RAF would be in desperate need of a 65 year old former Pilot.
Normally to be in the Reserves you must have been resident in the United Kingdom for three years - therefore Expats become exempt on my understanding.
Other exemptions, deferral or revocation can include:
- you have primary parental or care responsibilities
- you are engaged in full-time education or training
- you are self-employed or work in a family-run business which would be seriously harmed by your absence
- you have entered into a contract of employment but have not yet started work and your employer won’t agree to postpone your start date
- other compassionate reasons
Don't forget that call-out is normally for VERY extreme needs - like Gulf Wars, Falklands Wars, World Wars, etc...
LJ
Other exemptions, deferral or revocation can include:
- you have primary parental or care responsibilities
- you are engaged in full-time education or training
- you are self-employed or work in a family-run business which would be seriously harmed by your absence
- you have entered into a contract of employment but have not yet started work and your employer won’t agree to postpone your start date
- other compassionate reasons
Don't forget that call-out is normally for VERY extreme needs - like Gulf Wars, Falklands Wars, World Wars, etc...
LJ
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Prior to GW1 my mate got a big brown letter from PMC as it was then, we debated over what it was as he was on active reserve having just left and was experienced on several types that went and current by a few months on one, in the end after talking about it, we came up with if you haven't read it how can they do you for not responding to a reserve call up, so the letter sat propped up on his desk for months 
when eventually opened it turned out to be forwarded on mail lol.
when eventually opened it turned out to be forwarded on mail lol.
Having served out PVR-porridge at Binnsworth establishing why reservists hadn't responded to requests to come and join Bliar's illegal Iraqi misadventure, I attempted to make head or tail of the baffling, ambiguous wording of the Reserve Forces Act and was unable to do so.....it is written almost with the intent to deceive.
Most often the reason for failing to respond was the complete and utter institutional incompetence prevalent in the Reservists cell, resulting in post often being sent to the wrong person and no actual signed copies of the Notices being retained....
Nor had they any proof that people who had either married or moved house had failed to notify them - as I told them, when they moved from Barnwood to Innsworth they didn't notify all Reservists, so any address change notices after 1991 would be few in number. In any case, people could just have notified them by phone....
When I left, I sent something back to Binnsworth stating my understanding of my liability to any future call-out or recall notice by Recorded Delivery, stating that unless I heard to the contrary within 28 days then I would consider the matter closed.
I didn't, it was!
The whole reservist liability system, Impiger my old chum, needs to be re-worded in plain English which anyone can undertand. Otherwise any solicitor would simply say "I don't understand this gobbledegook, how can you expect my client to have done so?". Set your staff the task of doing so!
Never had a reply......
Most often the reason for failing to respond was the complete and utter institutional incompetence prevalent in the Reservists cell, resulting in post often being sent to the wrong person and no actual signed copies of the Notices being retained....
Nor had they any proof that people who had either married or moved house had failed to notify them - as I told them, when they moved from Barnwood to Innsworth they didn't notify all Reservists, so any address change notices after 1991 would be few in number. In any case, people could just have notified them by phone....When I left, I sent something back to Binnsworth stating my understanding of my liability to any future call-out or recall notice by Recorded Delivery, stating that unless I heard to the contrary within 28 days then I would consider the matter closed.
I didn't, it was!
The whole reservist liability system, Impiger my old chum, needs to be re-worded in plain English which anyone can undertand. Otherwise any solicitor would simply say "I don't understand this gobbledegook, how can you expect my client to have done so?". Set your staff the task of doing so!
Never had a reply......
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The whole idea of the Reserve is not to ocver the situation as it is now but as it may transpire in the future
If you don't want o be called up just make sure they know you've been lunching the Chinese Defence attache............
If you don't want o be called up just make sure they know you've been lunching the Chinese Defence attache............
I agree that the Reserve Call Out Procedure is a crock and that is exactly what Future Reserves 2020 paper spelled out and wants fixing ASAP.
On the subject of not answering a mobilisation/call-out letter; if you don't have a good reason for replying then you can be sent down for 3 months and a hefty fine (it's in RFA96). I don't believe "I haven't opened it" would quite cut it! Also, RFA96 spells out the offence for inciting AWOL or failure to report - some of the words on this thread could be construed as such...
Finally, Reserve Liability is set out very succinctly in the Service Leavers' Pack. Here's a link to the 8mb document (beware lots of big pictures!)
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/68DEE...UIDE_P4562.pdf
LJ
On the subject of not answering a mobilisation/call-out letter; if you don't have a good reason for replying then you can be sent down for 3 months and a hefty fine (it's in RFA96). I don't believe "I haven't opened it" would quite cut it! Also, RFA96 spells out the offence for inciting AWOL or failure to report - some of the words on this thread could be construed as such...
Finally, Reserve Liability is set out very succinctly in the Service Leavers' Pack. Here's a link to the 8mb document (beware lots of big pictures!)
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/68DEE...UIDE_P4562.pdf
LJ
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
On leaving, my RO2 oracle advised me to write a "Dear Betty" letter to the Manning Office, saying I would be unable to fulfill my reserve commitment due to the fact I was getting on with my life somewhere else - or words to that effect. I got a prompt response saying 'Thanks for all the fish, no further commitment". Of course, that was before random politicians decided that we needed to carry out operational evaluation trials of shabby kit all over the globe, so maybe it's not that easy any more.
PS.
The word is “clairvoyants”
PS.
Just as well......Turncoats not wanted!
Finally, Reserve Liability is set out very succinctly in the Service Leavers' Pack.
Each individual leaver should be given a clear, unambiguous and PERSONAL letter which make clear his/her reserve liability with specific dates applicable to his/her situation.
That brochure is a total waste of time in its current form. For example:
Duty to inform your Service Personnel Centre
You have a legal duty to inform your Service Personnel Centre (SPC) of any circumstances which may affect your call-out or recall. These would include any change of name or address, if you believe you have become medically unfit for service in the Armed Forces, or you plan to be abroad for a period of over 3 months.
You have a legal duty to inform your Service Personnel Centre (SPC) of any circumstances which may affect your call-out or recall. These would include any change of name or address, if you believe you have become medically unfit for service in the Armed Forces, or you plan to be abroad for a period of over 3 months.
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Before mass panic breaks out. Does anyone here actually know of, or have heard of, anyone being recalled to the Colours? (or Ensign, in this case).
To narrow the question down. In this Century?
To narrow the question down. In this Century?
Wise words on checking the details but the thrust of this debate (as appreciated by the civilian masses who do not understand our unfathomable ToS) is that you can be made compulsory redundant (non-volunteer) and be called-up at a time and place of HM's choosing. I'm sitting amongst a bunch of civilian friends this morning and they all consider this to be most unfair.
Why do you consider that unfair? I don't see this as being for the situation where they've made a mistake and suddenly need more people in a certain branch. Rather, I imagine they'll set the required manning and then have it upset by WWIII, whereupon they need you back because you've still got the requisite skills.
Seems alright to me; I wouldn't expect to get called back for "we're a bit short, can you come back for a few years?" but I'd be happy to do my bit in the even of another GW1/Falklands etc.
Beags
I suspect you will find the 'legal duty' covered off in these 2 lengthy documents...RFA80 and RFA96...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...9800009_en.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...9960014_en.pdf
...and that's not Royal Fleet Auxiliary!
PS. In answer to:
it's on page 4 of the link in my previous post - at the bottom of the page is the address of all 3 Services' Reserve Cells. And you are correct, it moved to HQAir from Innsworth as did most of the other PTC functions during the STC/PTC merger. Is that really too unreasonable to ask people to track it down? 
You could even Google "RAF Reserves" and it will lead you to the Reserves Cell at HQAir; unless, of course, you are a product of Bliar's British Education System and need to be "led to water" at every possible opportunity under the "Nanny State"?
I suspect you will find the 'legal duty' covered off in these 2 lengthy documents...RFA80 and RFA96...
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...9800009_en.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...9960014_en.pdf
...and that's not Royal Fleet Auxiliary!
PS. In answer to:
And precisely HOW are people expected to inform their 'Service Personnel Centre'?
You could even Google "RAF Reserves" and it will lead you to the Reserves Cell at HQAir; unless, of course, you are a product of Bliar's British Education System and need to be "led to water" at every possible opportunity under the "Nanny State"?
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 9th Apr 2012 at 18:15.
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I could see a lot of pissed off sacked people dragged back into the services for whatever reason simply saying **** you, they might be forcibly made to return, but one would bet the chances of getting them to do anything would be squat, the old adage you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink springs to mind.
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I was given a booklet entitiled "Notes for Officers retiring from the Royal Air Force"
18th Edition July 1992
Issued by the Air Secretary.
It says I'm liable to be recalled to service with the Regular Air Force at a time of imminent national danger. Up to the age of 60 in my case. It also says I will be employed in my former branch in a rank no lower than the substantive rank held at the time of retirement.
I didn't like the sound of half of my retired pay being abated for the privilege. I liked even less the statement that any portion of my retired pay (i.e. pension) that had been commuted would be recovered from my pay. Thankfully I'm too old for the last bit.
I have to keep RAF Innsworth informed of my address changes, which of course I have always done. However, they seem to have lost interest in me when I emigrated; they not been in touch recently and always seem to send the letters back saying "not at this address".
18th Edition July 1992
Issued by the Air Secretary.
It says I'm liable to be recalled to service with the Regular Air Force at a time of imminent national danger. Up to the age of 60 in my case. It also says I will be employed in my former branch in a rank no lower than the substantive rank held at the time of retirement.
I didn't like the sound of half of my retired pay being abated for the privilege. I liked even less the statement that any portion of my retired pay (i.e. pension) that had been commuted would be recovered from my pay. Thankfully I'm too old for the last bit.
I have to keep RAF Innsworth informed of my address changes, which of course I have always done. However, they seem to have lost interest in me when I emigrated; they not been in touch recently and always seem to send the letters back saying "not at this address".
Nutloose
Fine, then they can do 3 months at Her Majesty's Pleasure and hand back some of their redundacy payment as a fine. Really, redundancy was a known deal when we signed up (it's detailed under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme) and also the Reserve liability was in the small print for attestation or commissioning TACOS - it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone unless they have been in total denial. For most people we have all been through at least 1 redundancy round in the past as well.
P!ssed off, or not, it's something we all signed up to in the past and will just have to live with it.
LJ
Fine, then they can do 3 months at Her Majesty's Pleasure and hand back some of their redundacy payment as a fine. Really, redundancy was a known deal when we signed up (it's detailed under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme) and also the Reserve liability was in the small print for attestation or commissioning TACOS - it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone unless they have been in total denial. For most people we have all been through at least 1 redundancy round in the past as well.
P!ssed off, or not, it's something we all signed up to in the past and will just have to live with it.
LJ
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One does have to wonder how they would employ a long retired, 59 year old pilot who failed his refresher training or the medical/fitness test.
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Leon you're living in cuckoo land..
What one is trying to get across is you might sack somebody, but do not expect that person having been sacked and having been debrainwashed and now happily working for a living to suddenly drop everything and turf up bright and breezy willing to jump through hoops for an Airforce that 2 years ago said b*gger off....l will never happen, all you will get is a resentful Reservist willing to do the absolute minimum or less to get through, after all it is not exactly doing anything promotion or job prospects wise for them, far from it, it is having the opposite effect on their civilian job. If you leave at the end of your service then fair do's, but sacked, you shouldn't have to do a reserve in my opinion as your service and your contract was terminated period.
What one is trying to get across is you might sack somebody, but do not expect that person having been sacked and having been debrainwashed and now happily working for a living to suddenly drop everything and turf up bright and breezy willing to jump through hoops for an Airforce that 2 years ago said b*gger off....l will never happen, all you will get is a resentful Reservist willing to do the absolute minimum or less to get through, after all it is not exactly doing anything promotion or job prospects wise for them, far from it, it is having the opposite effect on their civilian job. If you leave at the end of your service then fair do's, but sacked, you shouldn't have to do a reserve in my opinion as your service and your contract was terminated period.
Cuckoo land or not, if the individual has skills that the Country needs in dire emergency (don't forget that's what the liability is for) then the individual will be called forward. If that individual decides not to answer that call they can either go to Prison and pay a fine, or they can help the Country in their time of need. A simple choice I would think?
There are many things we cannot say "no" to in this Country - Reserve Liability, Jury Service, Crown Requisition of Property, Complusory Purchase Orders, etc... Well, we can say "no" but then we can suffer the legal consequence.
Or we can just continue living in denial...now where is that Cuckoo?
There are many things we cannot say "no" to in this Country - Reserve Liability, Jury Service, Crown Requisition of Property, Complusory Purchase Orders, etc... Well, we can say "no" but then we can suffer the legal consequence.
Or we can just continue living in denial...now where is that Cuckoo?
