Voyager: AT Aircraft Only??
1st Voyager Takes Flight With Royal Air Force
LONDON — The first of 14 new A330 transport and inflight refueling tanker planes has been released for operational service with Britain’s Royal Air Force.
AirTanker Services, the EADS-led consortium providing the aircraft, said the jet conducted its first training sortie under the command of its own crew April 8 to “signal the commencement of the Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft [FSTA] service to the RAF.” AirTanker is providing the aircraft to the RAF as part of a 24-year private finance initiative deal.
The deal will see a mix of AirTanker and RAF crews provide passenger, cargo and inflight refueling service using a core fleet of A330 aircraft, with a further five aircraft leased out to the third-party market and available for recall in an emergency.
The aircraft, known in RAF service as the Voyager, is scheduled to start passenger and cargo services later this year before becoming fully operational with inflight refueling capabilities in 2014.
Based at the RAF base at Brize Norton, England, the Voyager service being provided by AirTanker includes the provision of infrastructure, crew and engineer training, maintenance and ground support.
Voyager will be unable to perform the highest threat missions until its directional infrared countermeasure systems are increased from the current two units to three, after the U.K. Ministry of Defence mandated a late upgrade of defensive capabilities.
The first five aircraft will be delivered with two systems, and the first machine with three countermeasure kits is not expected to be available until mid-2013.
A second Voyager is scheduled to be delivered for operations later this year, followed by a further five next year. The nine core aircraft are scheduled for delivery by May 2014, and all 14 A330s will be available by 2016.
The new aircraft will replace the RAF’s fleet of aging Lockheed Tristars and Vickers VC-10s.
Work on resolving problems with the inflight refueling system is ongoing, and is not expected to affect the start of inflight refueling operations.
1st Voyager Takes Flight With Royal Air Force | Defense News | defensenews.com
AirTanker Services, the EADS-led consortium providing the aircraft, said the jet conducted its first training sortie under the command of its own crew April 8 to “signal the commencement of the Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft [FSTA] service to the RAF.” AirTanker is providing the aircraft to the RAF as part of a 24-year private finance initiative deal.
The deal will see a mix of AirTanker and RAF crews provide passenger, cargo and inflight refueling service using a core fleet of A330 aircraft, with a further five aircraft leased out to the third-party market and available for recall in an emergency.
The aircraft, known in RAF service as the Voyager, is scheduled to start passenger and cargo services later this year before becoming fully operational with inflight refueling capabilities in 2014.
Based at the RAF base at Brize Norton, England, the Voyager service being provided by AirTanker includes the provision of infrastructure, crew and engineer training, maintenance and ground support.
Voyager will be unable to perform the highest threat missions until its directional infrared countermeasure systems are increased from the current two units to three, after the U.K. Ministry of Defence mandated a late upgrade of defensive capabilities.
The first five aircraft will be delivered with two systems, and the first machine with three countermeasure kits is not expected to be available until mid-2013.
A second Voyager is scheduled to be delivered for operations later this year, followed by a further five next year. The nine core aircraft are scheduled for delivery by May 2014, and all 14 A330s will be available by 2016.
The new aircraft will replace the RAF’s fleet of aging Lockheed Tristars and Vickers VC-10s.
Work on resolving problems with the inflight refueling system is ongoing, and is not expected to affect the start of inflight refueling operations.
1st Voyager Takes Flight With Royal Air Force | Defense News | defensenews.com
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Chris - Home from the desert yes. Home to Blighty, not til Jun/Jul next year, unless someone very kind finds me a nice Voyager slot sooner!
BTW, that sounded distinctly like OC 10 I heard on the video of last week's flight. Maybe the only one 'current' to fly it?
BTW, that sounded distinctly like OC 10 I heard on the video of last week's flight. Maybe the only one 'current' to fly it?
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Been out at Amberley this week. The RAAF KC-30A has been flying, with pods and boom attached nearly every day. Lots of Super Hornet flying too, and C-17 and Wedgetail. There's been an Omega Tanker 707 there all week too. Anyone know why they would be there now the KC is operational?
There's been an Omega Tanker 707 there all week too. Anyone know why they would be there now the KC is operational?
BTW, that sounded distinctly like OC 10 I heard on the video of last week's flight. Maybe the only one 'current' to fly it?
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Trim Stab - wow - what utter hoop you feel empowered to anonymously suggest.
It wasn't Dubai.
8 people were not on the cse.
They all passed.
Not all were VC10 drivers - only one but out of QoS currency by over 3 years.
Apart from that a fully informed and correct post. Blend
It wasn't Dubai.
8 people were not on the cse.
They all passed.
Not all were VC10 drivers - only one but out of QoS currency by over 3 years.
Apart from that a fully informed and correct post. Blend
Last edited by Chris Griffin; 19th Apr 2012 at 14:20. Reason: spolling
Cameron offered air tanker as VIP jet
Seems like there could be some added tasking:-
(Reuters) - Senior British politicians and royals might consider making foreign visits in converted air force refuelling jets after a row over the use of a rented Boeing for a trade mission to tout European-made Airbus planes.
Britain's aerospace industry lobby group said proposals were being drawn up by the industry that could allow Prime Minister David Cameron and even the Queen to use modified Airbus jetliners that double as refuelling planes.
The proposals follow a British media storm after Cameron led a business delegation to Indonesia in a chartered Boeing 747 to oversee the sale of jetliners worth $2.5 billion (1.5 billion pounds) supplied by Boeing's European arch-rival Airbus.
Robin Southwell, head of the UK aerospace industry's lobbying association and also head of Airbus parent EADS in Britain, said he would propose the alternative use of the Royal Air Force jets when not needed for refuelling missions.
He compared the choice of airliner for Indonesia to a luxury car salesman turning up in a used Jaguar.
"If you are trying to sell a new Aston Martin to someone and you turn up in a used Jag and say the Aston Martin is the best thing since sliced bread and then drive off in the Jag, it isn't as smart as turning up in the model you tried to sell."
The RAF is leasing 14 Airbus-built Voyager jets which can refuel fighters or carry troops or medical evacuees in a normal cabin. When not needed they can be chartered out and the wing pods removed, leaving a normal-looking jetliner in RAF colours.
A Downing Street spokeswoman said the government always considered various civil and military options when planning travel depending on the size of the group, cost and security.
"If it meets our needs and doesn't conflict with military operations, we would of course look at it, but it is just one of the options," she said.
An EADS spokesman said the same option would be available to Britain's royal family, depending on requirements and protocol.
A Buckingham Palace spokesman said it was too speculative to comment on whether the royal family would consider the plans.
Southwell said using the aircraft would not add any cost.
Britain's aerospace industry lobby group said proposals were being drawn up by the industry that could allow Prime Minister David Cameron and even the Queen to use modified Airbus jetliners that double as refuelling planes.
The proposals follow a British media storm after Cameron led a business delegation to Indonesia in a chartered Boeing 747 to oversee the sale of jetliners worth $2.5 billion (1.5 billion pounds) supplied by Boeing's European arch-rival Airbus.
Robin Southwell, head of the UK aerospace industry's lobbying association and also head of Airbus parent EADS in Britain, said he would propose the alternative use of the Royal Air Force jets when not needed for refuelling missions.
He compared the choice of airliner for Indonesia to a luxury car salesman turning up in a used Jaguar.
"If you are trying to sell a new Aston Martin to someone and you turn up in a used Jag and say the Aston Martin is the best thing since sliced bread and then drive off in the Jag, it isn't as smart as turning up in the model you tried to sell."
The RAF is leasing 14 Airbus-built Voyager jets which can refuel fighters or carry troops or medical evacuees in a normal cabin. When not needed they can be chartered out and the wing pods removed, leaving a normal-looking jetliner in RAF colours.
A Downing Street spokeswoman said the government always considered various civil and military options when planning travel depending on the size of the group, cost and security.
"If it meets our needs and doesn't conflict with military operations, we would of course look at it, but it is just one of the options," she said.
An EADS spokesman said the same option would be available to Britain's royal family, depending on requirements and protocol.
A Buckingham Palace spokesman said it was too speculative to comment on whether the royal family would consider the plans.
Southwell said using the aircraft would not add any cost.
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The Voyager now at Brize will start conducting pax flights after returning from C-check in Manchester late this month. Flight International article also details the factors behind the fuel venting issue, and steps to fix it:
IN FOCUS: Shared Voyager delivers the RAF's new tanker/transport
IN FOCUS: Shared Voyager delivers the RAF's new tanker/transport
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So the reason the AAR system does not work is that the pilots don't hit the basket fast enough. Right.
This issue has been on going for months and we are getting AAR critical in terms of tanker availability. No one is denying the fact that when it works it will be a very capable aircraft, it's just disappointing that as our VC10's are culled and the Tristar fleet remains on its knees, we have a capability gap looming that will mean depending on other nations assets. We have to support the Falklands, Q and Op Herrick before we even look at local AAR and exercise deployments. Red Flag early next year will be interesting with a rumoured 2 Sqns expecting to deploy. It took nearly 4 weeks to deploy just one Sqn with 2 tankers and no spares support this year and we will be at least 3? more tankers down by then.
Still, as it's allegedly the pilots and BAE's fault ( as they didn't provide 2 GR4's for the trials),then air tanker i assume will have no penalty to pay. Lucky them.
This issue has been on going for months and we are getting AAR critical in terms of tanker availability. No one is denying the fact that when it works it will be a very capable aircraft, it's just disappointing that as our VC10's are culled and the Tristar fleet remains on its knees, we have a capability gap looming that will mean depending on other nations assets. We have to support the Falklands, Q and Op Herrick before we even look at local AAR and exercise deployments. Red Flag early next year will be interesting with a rumoured 2 Sqns expecting to deploy. It took nearly 4 weeks to deploy just one Sqn with 2 tankers and no spares support this year and we will be at least 3? more tankers down by then.
Still, as it's allegedly the pilots and BAE's fault ( as they didn't provide 2 GR4's for the trials),then air tanker i assume will have no penalty to pay. Lucky them.
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Collbar Maybe the defence system is not required untill a later point in the contract. If the wiring is in place its only a few hours to fit the external bits surely!!
Apparently when the VC10 fleet was rewired at EGNX, (from there it went down to Bournemouth to have the tanker pods installed), common sense (and it was offered to be done free of charge rumour has it) would have been to put all the tanker wiring through all the disturbed pressure bulkhead seals during the rewiring phase, then it was a simple job of routing and connecting up, however that was a different contract, so when the tankers arrived for the refueling fit all the pressure bulkhead seals had to be split open again to allow the tanker wiring to be addded to the looms....
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Hi lj101,
Yes, it did strike me that the RAF is going to be looking a bit AAR-light if the VC10s are gone by March 2013 and the TriStars by the end of the same year. But I think that the way the PFI is written, AirTanker won't get paid for any AAR services until the new aircraft are actually delivering them. And they didn't set the dates for the transition from the current types; I believe that was another "benefit" of SDSR
Yes, it did strike me that the RAF is going to be looking a bit AAR-light if the VC10s are gone by March 2013 and the TriStars by the end of the same year. But I think that the way the PFI is written, AirTanker won't get paid for any AAR services until the new aircraft are actually delivering them. And they didn't set the dates for the transition from the current types; I believe that was another "benefit" of SDSR
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So, it's flying. Any words on how long until it's actually flying AT?
I'm intrigued at the numbers the Sqn is working to; as i understand it, at the moment, a single route would strip the sqn down to execs and anything as wild as a slip pattern would involve 100% (of the RAF side) deploying.
Of course, some of that would be split with the civvy side but i'm still intrigued as to how the day-to-day side of route flying will evolve logistically on 10 Sqn?
Standing by for corrections, but i believe that when Brize's last new sqn, 99 Sqn stood up in 2001, the jets arrived and were out on Ops (Kosovo) on Day 2 of their RAF service.
I'm intrigued at the numbers the Sqn is working to; as i understand it, at the moment, a single route would strip the sqn down to execs and anything as wild as a slip pattern would involve 100% (of the RAF side) deploying.
Of course, some of that would be split with the civvy side but i'm still intrigued as to how the day-to-day side of route flying will evolve logistically on 10 Sqn?
Standing by for corrections, but i believe that when Brize's last new sqn, 99 Sqn stood up in 2001, the jets arrived and were out on Ops (Kosovo) on Day 2 of their RAF service.
Champagne anyone...?
I suspect that 99 were able to do that because they bought/leased everything from the USA - from flying suits, publications and training through to the aircraft themselves.
By cutting out the every present ogre of RAF-Fannying-About-With-Things 99 were, I imagine, able to just crack on and do their job.
By cutting out the every present ogre of RAF-Fannying-About-With-Things 99 were, I imagine, able to just crack on and do their job.
Ginsters
How come they have so few crews? The RAF must be awash with ex VC10/Nimrod pilots. It should only takes 6-8weeks to train crews up to the route training phase with modern sims and training aids.
Last edited by cessnapete; 23rd Apr 2012 at 19:52.
[QUOTE]StopStart: I suspect that 99 were able to do that because they bought/leased everything from the USA - from flying suits, publications and training through to the aircraft themselves. By cutting out the every present ogre of RAF-Fannying-About-With-Things 99 were, I imagine, able to just crack on and do their job.[/QUOTE]
It was same here in Oz with 36 SQN receiving the C-17A. Very quick FMS acquisition, plus we got a sim as well fairly quickly. These FMS puchases, same as F/A-18F Superbug, with no customising (or very little), are the way to go - if there is a cab on the rank which meets requirements.
But there was no existing cab for our AEW&C and for AAR. The 2 SQN Wedgetail (built on the 737-700) was the first of type and very risky buying off the drawing board. However, it is performing ok, probably to 80% now and work will continue thru its life of type - way of the world these days with computer aircraft.
And there was no tanker - Boeing stuffed around for years with 767 for Italy and Japan, and I don't know if its right yet (and even then only drogues). Years off for the USAF. Our 33 SQN KC-30A (based on A330-200) is perfoming well with drogues only at this stage, boom (fitted but not cleared) not too far off. It will be the benchmark for France, Saudi, UAE, etc.
So these have been expensive programs as the lead customer, but all should work out well. It is interesting, when we get aircraft like these about to enter service, pilots go off to QANTAS on the 737 or A330 for route training on scheduled passenger-hauling routes, wearing QANTAS uniform. I don't think RAF does that.
It was same here in Oz with 36 SQN receiving the C-17A. Very quick FMS acquisition, plus we got a sim as well fairly quickly. These FMS puchases, same as F/A-18F Superbug, with no customising (or very little), are the way to go - if there is a cab on the rank which meets requirements.
But there was no existing cab for our AEW&C and for AAR. The 2 SQN Wedgetail (built on the 737-700) was the first of type and very risky buying off the drawing board. However, it is performing ok, probably to 80% now and work will continue thru its life of type - way of the world these days with computer aircraft.
And there was no tanker - Boeing stuffed around for years with 767 for Italy and Japan, and I don't know if its right yet (and even then only drogues). Years off for the USAF. Our 33 SQN KC-30A (based on A330-200) is perfoming well with drogues only at this stage, boom (fitted but not cleared) not too far off. It will be the benchmark for France, Saudi, UAE, etc.
So these have been expensive programs as the lead customer, but all should work out well. It is interesting, when we get aircraft like these about to enter service, pilots go off to QANTAS on the 737 or A330 for route training on scheduled passenger-hauling routes, wearing QANTAS uniform. I don't think RAF does that.
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