Dambusters the Movie - more rumours
Whatever happened to Red Tails?
The CGI clip I saw looked a bit improbable to be honest.
As for the Dambusters remake. Bring it on. As story telling goes, the original is marvelous, but let down with some dodgy special effects. Is it accurate? Only those who were there know. May they rest in peace. The fact that Upkeep is now declassified can only help a remake more enjoyable.
With Jackson and Fry involved I'm sure it will be a triumph.
Gentleman Aviator
Ah, you mean getting carried away in the flood, futilely grasping at the hanging branch of a tree as the tree is also swept away.
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I recall the headlines in the UK Papers when Richard Todd walked out of the American Premier of the "Dam Busters" because the American Distributors had grafted B 17's onto the attack Formations.
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I must admit to being so cynical these days - everything is suborned to attracting the mighty dollar:
Honesty
Integrity
Accuracy
Honour
Why should this film be any different ? Who captured the code books and Enigma machine from the scuttling U-Boat - oh, that would be the Yanks. I even think that took place before the USA were even IN the war. ACTUALLY INCORRECT, BUT EITHER WAY IT WAS Royal Navy.
Probably designed to be marketed to so many Americans that can't even identify Europe on a map, let alone UK and Germany.
Not a dig at the Yanks, just a dig that those attributes above are SO negotiable. THAT's how naive I am.
Honesty
Integrity
Accuracy
Honour
Why should this film be any different ? Who captured the code books and Enigma machine from the scuttling U-Boat - oh, that would be the Yanks. I even think that took place before the USA were even IN the war. ACTUALLY INCORRECT, BUT EITHER WAY IT WAS Royal Navy.
Probably designed to be marketed to so many Americans that can't even identify Europe on a map, let alone UK and Germany.
Not a dig at the Yanks, just a dig that those attributes above are SO negotiable. THAT's how naive I am.
Last edited by Dengue_Dude; 2nd Apr 2012 at 12:17. Reason: spelin/accuracy
Cool Mod
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The Enigma Machine
A few years ago I read the book 'Ultra' about the Enigma machine - Churchills name for it. It was an invention by a Polish scientist early in the middle years after WW1
I recall that the machine came into - IIRC correctly - French hands very early on it was passed to us and we had it LONG before the machine was taken from the U-Boat.
In any case there is an anomaly here and O B Jones book was very detailed.
If I have got it wrong I will, no doubt, be told but O B Jones was an enigmatic man himself and his book was brilliant - the whole story of Bletchley Park and the maths genius Alun Turing.
Having said I have looked up a few relevant details and this link may help prove the point about the U-Boat.
Deception - Ultra and Enigma
I recall that the machine came into - IIRC correctly - French hands very early on it was passed to us and we had it LONG before the machine was taken from the U-Boat.
In any case there is an anomaly here and O B Jones book was very detailed.
If I have got it wrong I will, no doubt, be told but O B Jones was an enigmatic man himself and his book was brilliant - the whole story of Bletchley Park and the maths genius Alun Turing.
Having said I have looked up a few relevant details and this link may help prove the point about the U-Boat.
Deception - Ultra and Enigma
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I recall that the machine came into - IIRC correctly - French hands very early
on it was passed to us and we had it LONG before the machine was taken from the
U-Boat.
on it was passed to us and we had it LONG before the machine was taken from the
U-Boat.
The RAF Digby Heritage Centre holds an example of a naval enigman machine should anyone wish to see one.
Talked to a Bletchley park guide last Saturday, and he gave a bit more info about the U-boat. Seems the two guys aboard were about to leave the sinking boat when they noticed a 4 rotor Enigma bolted to a desk in the captain's cabin. They were determined to take this as well, so hunted for a spanner and were unbolting the the thing when the boat went down.
However the documents they had previously passed up to the guy who stayed on the conning tower, were immeasurably helpful in braking the latest code.
However the documents they had previously passed up to the guy who stayed on the conning tower, were immeasurably helpful in braking the latest code.
A machine also on display at the Birkenhead Port Museum, U.K. As part of the U-234
Display. Located at the ferry across the Mersey terminal.
Display. Located at the ferry across the Mersey terminal.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
PP, I believe you meant RD Jones (aka Four-fee Jones) Most Secret.
According to Winterbotham, a Pole was working on the coding machine in 1938 in east Germany. His security clearance was revoked and he returned to Poland and was subsequently smuggled out by the Polish Secret Service and set up in Paris with the help of the Deuxieme Bureau. He made a wooden mockup of the machine on which he had been working.
From the mockup we were able to identify it as an enigma and a new one was obtained with the help of the Polish Secret Service.
According to Winterbotham, a Pole was working on the coding machine in 1938 in east Germany. His security clearance was revoked and he returned to Poland and was subsequently smuggled out by the Polish Secret Service and set up in Paris with the help of the Deuxieme Bureau. He made a wooden mockup of the machine on which he had been working.
From the mockup we were able to identify it as an enigma and a new one was obtained with the help of the Polish Secret Service.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 11th Sep 2012 at 15:51.
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PN said "PP, I believe you meant RD Jones (aka Four-fee Jones) Most Secret."
Pedant that I am it's actually RV Jones and he wore two watches, one on each wrist.
Curious about the 'Four Fees' ?
Pedant that I am it's actually RV Jones and he wore two watches, one on each wrist.
Curious about the 'Four Fees' ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Aviate, RV it is.
As rector of Aberdeen University (I think) he had other jobs in addition to the one on TV, BBC?, and was this known as 4-fee.
Unless I misrecall having misread and misunderstood and it was 'for fee'.
As rector of Aberdeen University (I think) he had other jobs in addition to the one on TV, BBC?, and was this known as 4-fee.
Unless I misrecall having misread and misunderstood and it was 'for fee'.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 11th Sep 2012 at 16:52.
Red On, Green On
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RV Jones was a Professor at Aberdeen, never Rector.
I used to see him from time to time in the early 80s when I worked with one of his daughters.
I used to see him from time to time in the early 80s when I worked with one of his daughters.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 12th Sep 2012 at 06:46.
Thread Creep - Red Tails
Thats funny, took my eldest to see it in July. Lots of CGI and some unbelievable flying (sure a P-51 cannot do a back flip and not all B-17 wings fall of when you hit the outboard engine with cannon fire). But the storyline was at least factual and based on the efforts of some very brave men.
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Prof RV Jones was still lecturing when I had my first year physics classes at Aberdeen in 1974/75. Later, in about 1982? when I was on 360 Squadron at Wyton, he came to the Sqn for the day when we "re-created" the famous flight over Spalding during which the German Knickebein beam navigation signal was finally located. Hundreds of commemorative booklets had been produced, and he and I spent quite a while signing them (I was the humble pilot of the Canberra T17 used for the live radio hook-up, though the AEO did all the talking).
As senior Scientific advisor to Churchill, the then relatively young Jones had first hand experience and input into some incredible scientific efforts and achievements.
At Aberdeen he was latterly known as "ol twin fees" for managing to appear on both ITV and BBC programmes in the same period.
As senior Scientific advisor to Churchill, the then relatively young Jones had first hand experience and input into some incredible scientific efforts and achievements.
At Aberdeen he was latterly known as "ol twin fees" for managing to appear on both ITV and BBC programmes in the same period.