BFTS JP Syllabus
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Fighter pilot
Wiggy - it wasn't an entirely fictional. On one occasion I remember vividly the chap I referred to in an earlier post spent at leat half a trip hitting me over the bonedome with his gloves and decrying my every move as I was trying to learn to fly right hand circuits at Linton on Wednesdays.
At TWU during a LL SAP, after ballooning in a LL turn, the guy in the back who's normal SOP was to fly with his mike off - clicked the mike on and uttered the immortal words "i'm getting a ***king nose bleed up here" clicked off....
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QWI: "Compensating errors. Doesn't count!"
Bushy-topped tree! Bushy-topped tree! Ride-up, bunt, pickle
Edited to add: JP3s on Linton's 2 Sqn absolutely sucked, due to a complete knob of a Boss and a very laking-in-lustre Flt Cdr (ex-F4 driver who thought he was the dog's nuts but evidently wasn't). Fortunately 'jumped' squadrons, as the RN was paying, so managed to get onto 3 Sqn for the JP5. Chalk and cheese. Great Boss (ex-Canberra's I think) and 2 top instructors (surprisingly ex-Vulcans). Despite such a pedigree (
) it was happy sqn and the results spoke for themselves. 2 Sqn obviously had a lasting effect on me; my mate offered me a 'go' in his JP3 and I told him he didn't have enough dosh to get me in the thing, let alone share petrol money with him. I just need him to buy a Hunter and I'll make it up to him 
There was a ruler, in a student's crewroom at Chiv I think, with all the random corrections used by QWIs on it
rad, rad and a tad, gnat's cock, smidge
and 2000 ft (for battle) marked in at least 5 places since every QWI's idea of it was different
Weaponeering was the Dark Arts in every sense
rad, rad and a tad, gnat's cock, smidge
and 2000 ft (for battle) marked in at least 5 places since every QWI's idea of it was different
Weaponeering was the Dark Arts in every sense
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Chain of command
Caz - yes, to the CI (initials RC)) then the Stn Cdr who both "closed ranks" and ultimately to AVM Elliot Ness (? - sorry, its all a long time ago) when I went to Biggin Hill for reselection and was told by the said AVM that I wasn't chopped because I couldn't fly - but because my "face did not fit". Sad end to a long cherished dream - would have never made single seat fast jet but something with someone else to share the workload - probably and certainly multi or rotary. 
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Off topic I know, but you may be aware that a JP3A, privately-owned, PFL-d into Wyton on Wed with an engine fire? Out of N Weald, doing an air test. Unfortunately, according to one of the 2 pilots, it'll never fly again.
And happier news (or not if you have a pathological hatred of the JP3 
) is that damage is not too bad and should fly again before too long...NoD
Nod, sad, I see no mention of pilots fighting for control as supersonic jet -Provost avoids jobcentre and filling station queues,a nearby monastry,nuns on a picnic,the `home of rest ` for ex-RAF Staff Officers,`pikeys caravan site,and the nearby skool....! must be slipping (not side-slipping))....
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I didn't fly an RAF JP, having trained on the Provost T1. I did fly civvy JPs, the MK 1, 3 and 5A, though, and never saw a syllabus..
I came across a photocopy of the "Instructors' Handbook for the Provost T1", if there is anything of interest in there.
As there is drift on to instructional techniques, as a student and later QFI, I learned that the instructor's technique differed in line with the student's needs. One of my PP instructors found that I needed "encouragement" to learn. He used to take the crowbar from the left side of the student's seat, hold it on his lap, and, when he deemed it necessary, would wap he on the left side of my bonedome. I had to explain the dents when I handed it back to stores.
As a Hunter student, the most memorable info I received from an air-to-air gunnery instructor was, "Hold the joystick like you hold your c**k." It seemed to work, as my end of course report awarded me "Above Average" in gunnery. I often wondered what that said about me.
As a Chipmunk instructor, I had a stude who, whenever turning left, would pull the nose up.
This was because, when he looked left, he automatically pulled back on the control stick. Despite pointing this out to him, he continued this error. To try to remind him, whenever we turned left, I would lean forward and strike him on the base of his neck with my extended fingers. This worked in the beginning, but he then learned that if he moved his head forward, I couldn't reach him. However, this had the effect of him pulling the stick back harder, as he pulled himself forward. We eventually got around that by my reeling him in by his pigtail and bashing his head on the coaming between the cockpits. We eventually compromised:- I'd stop physcally abusing him if he would fly level turns to the left. No, that technique was NOT taught at CFS. This stude went on to be something big in the CAA.
I came across a photocopy of the "Instructors' Handbook for the Provost T1", if there is anything of interest in there.
As there is drift on to instructional techniques, as a student and later QFI, I learned that the instructor's technique differed in line with the student's needs. One of my PP instructors found that I needed "encouragement" to learn. He used to take the crowbar from the left side of the student's seat, hold it on his lap, and, when he deemed it necessary, would wap he on the left side of my bonedome. I had to explain the dents when I handed it back to stores.
As a Hunter student, the most memorable info I received from an air-to-air gunnery instructor was, "Hold the joystick like you hold your c**k." It seemed to work, as my end of course report awarded me "Above Average" in gunnery. I often wondered what that said about me.
As a Chipmunk instructor, I had a stude who, whenever turning left, would pull the nose up.
This was because, when he looked left, he automatically pulled back on the control stick. Despite pointing this out to him, he continued this error. To try to remind him, whenever we turned left, I would lean forward and strike him on the base of his neck with my extended fingers. This worked in the beginning, but he then learned that if he moved his head forward, I couldn't reach him. However, this had the effect of him pulling the stick back harder, as he pulled himself forward. We eventually got around that by my reeling him in by his pigtail and bashing his head on the coaming between the cockpits. We eventually compromised:- I'd stop physcally abusing him if he would fly level turns to the left. No, that technique was NOT taught at CFS. This stude went on to be something big in the CAA.
...I would lean forward and strike him on the base of his neck...
We eventually compromised:- I'd stop physcally abusing him if he would fly level turns to the left
Didn't you teach him how to select the correct attitude whilst rolling in to the turn?
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Beagle and Caz.
Sorry to have trodden on your sensitive bits. Perhaps “strike” is too strong a word. “Poke” would do, perhaps. Only one student had to endure this unorthodox technique, and he WAS taught how to select the correct attitude. It just was that he was not very good at doing it. He got it eventually, and reached the end of his course satisfactorily.
You probably found that students are often quite different from each other, and respond to different techniques; some need to be coaxed, some spoken to firmly, others respond to jocularity. But I reckon that's granny and sucking eggs stuff.
However, in 3 years of UAS instructing, none of my students failed to pass on to the next phase of training. None requested an instructor change. I lost one only, and he went willingly as he had chronic air-sickness. My “nape of the neck” technique came in handy in his case. He could not wear an oxygen mask, used only for radio and R/T, as it made him gag. So he was permitted to use a throat mike. When we discovered that he was prone to airsickness, he was never able to unplug or disconnect his throat mike before throwing up. The sound which came over the intercom was not good, and in this case, a quick pinching motion of my fingers at the clip behind his neck was able to disconnect the mike.
Sorry to have trodden on your sensitive bits. Perhaps “strike” is too strong a word. “Poke” would do, perhaps. Only one student had to endure this unorthodox technique, and he WAS taught how to select the correct attitude. It just was that he was not very good at doing it. He got it eventually, and reached the end of his course satisfactorily.
You probably found that students are often quite different from each other, and respond to different techniques; some need to be coaxed, some spoken to firmly, others respond to jocularity. But I reckon that's granny and sucking eggs stuff.
However, in 3 years of UAS instructing, none of my students failed to pass on to the next phase of training. None requested an instructor change. I lost one only, and he went willingly as he had chronic air-sickness. My “nape of the neck” technique came in handy in his case. He could not wear an oxygen mask, used only for radio and R/T, as it made him gag. So he was permitted to use a throat mike. When we discovered that he was prone to airsickness, he was never able to unplug or disconnect his throat mike before throwing up. The sound which came over the intercom was not good, and in this case, a quick pinching motion of my fingers at the clip behind his neck was able to disconnect the mike.
Originally Posted by NoD
Technically it is a JP3 - not A 
And happier news (or not if you have a pathological hatred of the JP3 
) is that damage is not too bad and should fly again before too long...
NoD
And happier news (or not if you have a pathological hatred of the JP3 ) is that damage is not too bad and should fly again before too long...NoD
I thought the tip tanks made it a 3A???
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Wwyvern
I would not describe our views in the way that you do. What you described was totally UNPROFESSIONAL and totally UNACCEPTABLE.
I would not describe our views in the way that you do. What you described was totally UNPROFESSIONAL and totally UNACCEPTABLE.
Last edited by cazatou; 1st Apr 2012 at 18:55.
Avoid imitations
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One QFI at Linton in the late 70s was definitely a pressed man and seemed to resent flying with students. He seemed over-friendly on the ground but resorted to severe name calling and thumping on the arm if the student couldn't get something right at first attempt. He had to think again about his "instructional methods" when two students threatened him with some return violence. A buddy of mine almost came to blows with him in the circuit. After landing he was marched into the flight commander's office and he never flew with him again. The other student eventually got chopped.
I got this instructor on the rebound after a "reshuffle". After two trips with him it was obvious I wouldn't progress with him because I found myself getting frustrated and angry with him in the air. I went to my flight commander and told him I wanted an instructor change. The answer? He said: "Well someone's got to fly with him!"
I just shrugged my shoulders. I got my instructor change.
I got this instructor on the rebound after a "reshuffle". After two trips with him it was obvious I wouldn't progress with him because I found myself getting frustrated and angry with him in the air. I went to my flight commander and told him I wanted an instructor change. The answer? He said: "Well someone's got to fly with him!"
I just shrugged my shoulders. I got my instructor change.
So that chip on your shoulder was an ACTUAL chipped bone then Shy?
CG
(for the no win no fee Ppruners, I'm kidding- don't bother asking him to sue!)
CG
(for the no win no fee Ppruners, I'm kidding- don't bother asking him to sue!)
Some experiences may have seemed very hard from the student point of view at the time and I agree that there were some real ar*****le QFI's around in the early/late 60's, (and QWI's). I would suggest, however, that the majority of instructors did actually try to help their students and had a great feeling of achievment in seeing them pass out at the end of the course. I know that I did (and remember that there were good students and bad, and all the rest!!)
Avoid imitations
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So that chip on your shoulder was an ACTUAL chipped bone then Shy?
CG
CG
Bill, Having subsequently spent a number of years instructing elsewhere, I stick by my words. There were some good, but unfortunately also some poor QFIs at that location. I was a mediocre student at best, but survived the training in spite of the latter. The ethos of some seemed to be "chop early for Christmas, there's plenty more students where the last ones came from".