BFTS JP Syllabus
Avoid imitations
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But he's a survivor.... 
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No I'm not developing MSFT or some privatised guff scheme, I've been asked to give a local pres on my somewhat unorthodox mil career and I am trying to remember the 90 hours of heaven and hell from the late 80s at CF. Mainly hell obviously but I remember some good trips - mainly solo or with an excellent F4 mate with the initials JB; he taught me that flying could be enjoyable, unlike the c**k of a creamy who put me right off.
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C**k of a creamy
It wasn't just creamies chap - I had one who was an ex 60 Sqn pilot - Flt cdr too - and believe me, a ride with the resident creamy (L G-B) was a walk in the park after a ride from hell with that bloke!
PS - I've got my "tick sheets" somewhere if all else fails PM me and I'll try to find them.
PS - I've got my "tick sheets" somewhere if all else fails PM me and I'll try to find them.
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As a QFI on the JP I would point out that I never instructed at a Basic FTS but I did spend over 4 years instructing on the School of Refresher Flying where the Students I flew with ranged in rank from Pilot Officer to Air Commodore.
There was no Manual which detailed the formal syllabus because all the Students were going to different aircraft and had a variety of backgrounds. We adapted the syllabus to meet the requirements of the Student. One of my last Students was the Air Commodore who was about to become the Commandant of CFS.
There was no Manual which detailed the formal syllabus because all the Students were going to different aircraft and had a variety of backgrounds. We adapted the syllabus to meet the requirements of the Student. One of my last Students was the Air Commodore who was about to become the Commandant of CFS.
Last edited by cazatou; 30th Mar 2012 at 10:56.
Serious question amongst the banter and sandbags - what it is about the military environment which produces absolute shocking instructors?
I can only think of 2 off the top of my head who were worth their salt: one knew his stuff inside out and could get it across in a way that encouraged the students, the other whilst not as technically brilliant looked out for the students and tried to bring them on as individuals and officers in general. As for the rest, there are some, dating back to IOT, that I frankly wouldn't pee on if they were on fire they were that bad - both as individuals and instructors.
Is it the alpha military environment that breads bad instructors, or is it / was it a case of bad individuals either 'escaping' to the training system before they were found out, or having been found out, being sent to the training system because there was no other option?
I can only think of 2 off the top of my head who were worth their salt: one knew his stuff inside out and could get it across in a way that encouraged the students, the other whilst not as technically brilliant looked out for the students and tried to bring them on as individuals and officers in general. As for the rest, there are some, dating back to IOT, that I frankly wouldn't pee on if they were on fire they were that bad - both as individuals and instructors.
Is it the alpha military environment that breads bad instructors, or is it / was it a case of bad individuals either 'escaping' to the training system before they were found out, or having been found out, being sent to the training system because there was no other option?
Good question; not sure.
My IOT flt cdr was a total w#nker (note to prospective cadets - If this happens to you, do not say this to his face in week 3 if you want an easy life), and another almost got 10 of us killed.
However, ALL my flying and ground instructors were at least good, and most excellent. This seems to be a rarity, so NUAS 81-84, 3Sqn Cranwell '85-86, 3 Sqn Valley '86 and 234 sqn '87 were, apparently the exception to prove the rule.
I did the AIC at Newton, and thought it was very well run. I think you need the QFIs to tell you what the problem was. I should think the Sqn Boss has a lot to do with it.
My IOT flt cdr was a total w#nker (note to prospective cadets - If this happens to you, do not say this to his face in week 3 if you want an easy life), and another almost got 10 of us killed.
However, ALL my flying and ground instructors were at least good, and most excellent. This seems to be a rarity, so NUAS 81-84, 3Sqn Cranwell '85-86, 3 Sqn Valley '86 and 234 sqn '87 were, apparently the exception to prove the rule.
I did the AIC at Newton, and thought it was very well run. I think you need the QFIs to tell you what the problem was. I should think the Sqn Boss has a lot to do with it.
There was a deliberate and definate change in the style of instructing in the early 90s. My CFS course was the very first to receive some training in instructing psychology in an attempt to improve the pass rate. That famous scene from 'Fighter Pilot' was used as an example of how not to instruct - it was precisely that sort of thing they were trying to stamp out.
And on the FTS, there was no doubt there was an attitude change. This might have been a result of the new aircraft (Tucano) and the weeding out of a few of the old dinosaurs, but it was a positive improvemnet. For the student, he constant threats of being chopped had largely disappeared and there was a much more pleasnat attitude. And the more positive attitude improved the training environment and it was considered that standards and pass rates had improved.
As for my QFIs, I had the new creamie which was hell (one comment: "my twelve year old sister could do better than that!") and a sucession of fast jet aces who were often very quick to point out my many shortcomings. The one who got the best out of me was a Canberra pilot - but by that stage the damage had been done.
Interestingly, I didn't keep in touch with any of my instructors (except two who later became fellow QFIs). But I am still in touch with quite a number of my students.
Wiggy - I only did a couple of trips with you as you were on the other flight - but I enjoyed them (LL Nav!).
And on the FTS, there was no doubt there was an attitude change. This might have been a result of the new aircraft (Tucano) and the weeding out of a few of the old dinosaurs, but it was a positive improvemnet. For the student, he constant threats of being chopped had largely disappeared and there was a much more pleasnat attitude. And the more positive attitude improved the training environment and it was considered that standards and pass rates had improved.
As for my QFIs, I had the new creamie which was hell (one comment: "my twelve year old sister could do better than that!") and a sucession of fast jet aces who were often very quick to point out my many shortcomings. The one who got the best out of me was a Canberra pilot - but by that stage the damage had been done.
Interestingly, I didn't keep in touch with any of my instructors (except two who later became fellow QFIs). But I am still in touch with quite a number of my students.
Wiggy - I only did a couple of trips with you as you were on the other flight - but I enjoyed them (LL Nav!).
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60 Sqn
Maxi - no, this guy's initials were ML. Without giving too much away I was at Linton around the same time that they filmed the infamous Fighter Pilot series, but on another Squadron. It was definitely as case of "if your face fits" and this one guy brought to an end something that I had worked towards for 5 years.
Gentleman Aviator
Serious question amongst the banter and sandbags - what it is about the military environment which produces absolute shocking instructors?
So here goes - in 2 parts:
Good Points on CFS(H) and/or QHIs
1. No creamies! Importantly, all instruction could be related to front-line flying.
2. CFS(H) has a single course, whether the baby beefer is going to instruct on Squirrel basic or Chinook OCU; ergo, it teaches how to teach and not what to teach.
3. CFS(H) staff have some flying experience in the last 10 years outside Lincolnshire or the Vale of York!
4. Tri-Service environment has always been maintained - just like Upavon in 1912!
Not so Good Points on CFS (Fixed Wing) and/or QFIs
5. Creamies - with some notable exceptions!
6. QFIs taught (mostly) on the aircraft on which they will instruct - discourages wider thinking.
7. Many CFS Staff seem to have been there since Pontius.
8. Not sure how it sits now, but in the past CFS used as "dumping ground" to ease manning. Eg - co-pilots not quite ready for Captaincy (or whose fleet breaks - see above) get sent to CFS to boost P1 hours.
Biased opinion - of course; but much truth.
Discuss.
Last edited by teeteringhead; 30th Mar 2012 at 09:55.
an ex 60 Sqn pilot
Which, of course, we students never mentioned. Not once. Oooh No. Or rather, not often.... We would look him in the face and ask, with mock seriousness, "How did you manage to re-role from Pembrokes to Phantoms?"...
That Fighter Pilot JP clip was the result of the luvvies' request for something a bit more interesting for the unwashed genpub to see. It was complete fabrication, although there were some people around in those days whose 'ability to impart instruction' was woeful.
QFIs
There seems to be a lot of banter here about lousy QFIs, particularly Creamies. As an ex-Creamie, I can understand this as I know that I for one was not a particularly good instructor. The main reason for this was my extreme frustration at being creamed off when I desperately wanted to get on to fighters and go overseas. (This was in the 60s, when Labour were planning to pull out of all the glamorous overseas locations). My error was coming top of my course at Basic and Advanced. The cruel lesson for me was – don’t try hard, or the bastards will screw you! Still – if you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have joined.
After that I went to Chivenor to fly DF/GA Hunters and was appalled at the lack of professionalism of some of the PAIs. Quite a few of them made not the slightest effort to ‘instruct’ properly, expecting the student to get things right just from hearing the Phase Brief. On the ground their stock-in-trade consisted of constant humiliation of the students, (Particularly ex-Creamies), while their instructional patter during a demo pass might run to “S***t! I’m almost as spastic as you are”. On my Air-to-Air dual the PAI gave me so much hassle that I only fired the gun once. After a solo cine sortie I managed to teach myself the technique and achieved 45% average for the course on the flag, having had not a word of worthwhile airborne instruction from a PAI.
In my view people like that should have been 1020'd off the unit for deliberate dereliction of duty - for petulantly refusing to carry out the job they had been trained for.
Later on I discovered that a large part of the PAI course consisted of weapon sortie after weapon sortie (solo), just to build up the student PAI’s personal weapon skill, with not much time devoted to actual instructional practice. The resultant skill level allowed them to ‘lord it’ over their students.
Fortunately, not all PAIs were like that. Some could use correct instructional techniques and actually improve student standards.
After that I went to Chivenor to fly DF/GA Hunters and was appalled at the lack of professionalism of some of the PAIs. Quite a few of them made not the slightest effort to ‘instruct’ properly, expecting the student to get things right just from hearing the Phase Brief. On the ground their stock-in-trade consisted of constant humiliation of the students, (Particularly ex-Creamies), while their instructional patter during a demo pass might run to “S***t! I’m almost as spastic as you are”. On my Air-to-Air dual the PAI gave me so much hassle that I only fired the gun once. After a solo cine sortie I managed to teach myself the technique and achieved 45% average for the course on the flag, having had not a word of worthwhile airborne instruction from a PAI.
In my view people like that should have been 1020'd off the unit for deliberate dereliction of duty - for petulantly refusing to carry out the job they had been trained for.
Later on I discovered that a large part of the PAI course consisted of weapon sortie after weapon sortie (solo), just to build up the student PAI’s personal weapon skill, with not much time devoted to actual instructional practice. The resultant skill level allowed them to ‘lord it’ over their students.
Fortunately, not all PAIs were like that. Some could use correct instructional techniques and actually improve student standards.
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A brief word on the idea of continuity and consistency. I flew with 30 different instructors going through the JP course at Linton in 1971/72... all with different ideas and standards. The best instructor I had was the "creamie" I started out with...wish I could have flown with him all through the course.
That Fighter Pilot JP clip was the result of the luvvies' request for something a bit more interesting for the unwashed genpub to see. It was complete fabrication
I did my CFS JP course with John McCrea and his stories of the efforts the TV team went to to get "entertaining" footage were eye opening; the infamous Fighter Pilot scene (circuit detail I think) was the product of much editing but as I heard it that didn't stop the QFI involved having to explain himself and his Instructional Technique to various senior officers.......
Hi Dan W .. I'm still working my way through the logbooks - was St Athan involved?????
exMudmover..the only line of patter from QWI's I can remember was: "Sigh, I've shown you once, I'll show you how I did it again......"
...the only line of patter from QWIs I can remember was...
Self: "DH"
QWI: "Bollocks". Then leaps forward with special-for-QWIs measuring jobber...."You can't have done"!
Self: "Well, that's what the RSO said!".
QWI: "Compensating errors. Doesn't count!"
............................................................ .......
A few years later, BEagle is fortunate enough to be allowed another complete TWU, this time on the 'JP6' at Chivenor.
QWI: "BEagle, that kneepad bombing jobber thing you've made, can I have a copy, please?"
Self: "Certainly. As an ex-Vulcan co-pilot I'll happily share my knowledge with a mere fast jet QWI!"
QWI: "Cheeky sod!"
The 'kneepad bombing jobber' was something I'd made so that you could obtain the right sight piccy and other settings directly from the RSO's wind velocity without hard sums. Plot it, read off the settings. Good enough to win me the Viking Trophy for best overall live weapons!
Last edited by BEagle; 22nd Feb 2015 at 13:07.
I remember 2 film debriefs at Brawdy
Uncle Ray, who never needed slo-mo or measuring sticks,
Ray: "speed a tad slow, over pitch, early pickle......70' at 6"
Me: "RSO said.....70' at 6"
Ray: "You don't listen to a word we tell you, do you?"
Or a new QWI (now a VSO) grabbing a very old (Spitfire, Kestrel, etc) QWI's SCT film as a demo.
Every run had at least 3 errors, generating a variety of error estimates. We then discovered he had 4 DHs.
Uncle Ray, who never needed slo-mo or measuring sticks,
Ray: "speed a tad slow, over pitch, early pickle......70' at 6"
Me: "RSO said.....70' at 6"
Ray: "You don't listen to a word we tell you, do you?"
Or a new QWI (now a VSO) grabbing a very old (Spitfire, Kestrel, etc) QWI's SCT film as a demo.
Every run had at least 3 errors, generating a variety of error estimates. We then discovered he had 4 DHs.
Off topic I know, but you may be aware that a JP3A, privately-owned, PFL-d into Wyton on Wed with an engine fire? Out of N Weald, doing an air test. Unfortunately, according to one of the 2 pilots, it'll never fly again. 
Need to go grab my 1st logbook and see if I ever flew her. I shan't put the reg no on here as I noticed they have taped over it since it landed.
Need to go grab my 1st logbook and see if I ever flew her. I shan't put the reg no on here as I noticed they have taped over it since it landed.