Norwegian media reporting RNoAF Hercules missing
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So because English is not his primary language we should halt his education in that language as "good enough" and not point out an error that confuses and clouds what he is trying to say?
Or should we gently show him the correct word, and why it makes a difference?
Or should we gently show him the correct word, and why it makes a difference?
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GreenKnight, stop being a ****. Roalp has been very kindly updating this thread with the latest factual information. If due to being foreign he happens to mis-spell a word or two so what? I do it on my Ipad all the time.
Are they looking for the DTC's or the fdr memory modules? Does the J have any form of QAR recorder too?
Are they looking for the DTC's or the fdr memory modules? Does the J have any form of QAR recorder too?
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All victims are now identified
All the five deceased have now been identified after DNA tests.
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Alle ofrene etter Hercules-ulykken identifisert - TV 2 Nyhetene
Parts of the a/c will be shown to the press this coming Friday:
Google Translate
Original article in Swedish here:
Kraschade Herkulesdelar visas upp på fredag i Kiruna - Nyheter - tv4.se
P.S.: Thanks for the support after my "slip of the keyboard". I have only studied or used some 11 languages, so I'm just a beginner.
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Alle ofrene etter Hercules-ulykken identifisert - TV 2 Nyhetene
Parts of the a/c will be shown to the press this coming Friday:
Google Translate
Original article in Swedish here:
Kraschade Herkulesdelar visas upp på fredag i Kiruna - Nyheter - tv4.se
P.S.: Thanks for the support after my "slip of the keyboard". I have only studied or used some 11 languages, so I'm just a beginner.
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Colleague from following Hercules plane gives more details
Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) sent a special report this Thursday evening on the accident, in which Captain Bård Vereide for the first time gives several interesting details on the whole operation. He followed "Siv" in another Hercules named "Nanna". They were denied descent into Kiruna and ordered to return to search for the missing plane.
The low altitude of "Siv" was possibly caused by strong lee waves from the mountain, as a full-force storm was blowing. The Norwegian Air Force has used Hercules planes since the late 1960s and has never had any incidents or accidents with the type.
Google Translate continues to interpret Evenes Airport as "Glasgow".
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
â De vil alltid vÊre med oss. Vi vil alltid huske dem - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
Swedish and Norwegian newspapers previously quoted investigating officers saying that they so far had found "no technical faults" with the a/c. This statement sounds rather valueless when they still only have found 20% of the wreckage.
Google Translate
The low altitude of "Siv" was possibly caused by strong lee waves from the mountain, as a full-force storm was blowing. The Norwegian Air Force has used Hercules planes since the late 1960s and has never had any incidents or accidents with the type.
Google Translate continues to interpret Evenes Airport as "Glasgow".
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
â De vil alltid vÊre med oss. Vi vil alltid huske dem - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
Swedish and Norwegian newspapers previously quoted investigating officers saying that they so far had found "no technical faults" with the a/c. This statement sounds rather valueless when they still only have found 20% of the wreckage.
Google Translate
Last edited by roaldp; 12th Apr 2012 at 19:25.
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30 min. special report now available on the net
The 30 min. NRK report is now available on the net. Commentary in Norwegian without subtitles, but many interesting shots from the operation and the area. Also previous interview from 2010 with crew in the cockpit of "Siv".
Hopefully not blocked in your country due to copyright rules:
NRK Nett-TV - Flytragedien pa Kebnekaise
Hopefully not blocked in your country due to copyright rules:
NRK Nett-TV - Flytragedien pa Kebnekaise
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Video from the wreckage collection site (hangar) at Kiruna airport.
Hercules-styrten: Foreløpig rapport klar før sommeren - VG Nett om Hercules-ulykken
Hercules-styrten: Foreløpig rapport klar før sommeren - VG Nett om Hercules-ulykken
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Search operation halted until summer
The salvaged wreckage parts were shown to the press in Kiruna today. Their weight constitutes 25% of the total plane. The search operation will now be halted until summer. The "black boxes" have not been found and are probably buried under large amounts of snow and ice. The head of the Accident Investigation Board "believes with certainty that they are undamaged".
Google Translate messes up the headline. There is no "crash looking forward to summer".
A better variant would be:
The Hercules crash: Search operation pauses until summer.
Google Translate
Google Translate messes up the headline. There is no "crash looking forward to summer".
A better variant would be:
The Hercules crash: Search operation pauses until summer.
Google Translate
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just out of interest, was the cause and contributory factors surrounding the J crash at Pisa determined? I havent seen a report, I heard at the time they may have been practice assymetric?
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The Swedish AAIB has published a preliminary report with factual findings as of now, while the search for more clues continues. Apparently 28 % of the wreckage (measured in weight) has been found so far. Unfortunately it's in Swedish only.
Report: http://www.havkom.se/virtupload/repo...2012-05-10.pdf
My personal reflection of what has been concluded so far:
- HAZE01 was cleared to descend to FL70 and eventually 5000 ft (never read back as it coincided with time of accident) while being outside of controlled airspace, outside of radar coverage and over terrain with higher MORA. The report estimates FL70 being the same level as the point of impact with a QNH of 1000. From reading the report it seems the phraseology was legitimate, though confusing, basically allowing the crew to descend whenever they deemed fit. Other reported occurrences within the airforce with confusing descent clearances are touched upon in paragraph 1.18.8 of the report.
- In paragraph 1.19.6 the AAIB has interviewed people within the Norwegian Airforce. The following information has been brought out:
1) The pilots generally assume that ATC is responsible for terrain separation while flying IFR on a Flight Level
2) The pilots are not aware that Flight Levels need to be corrected for variations in atmospheric pressure
3) The pilots are not aware it's their responsibility to determine lowest useable Flight Level with regards to actual or forecasted QNH
- A series (14 total) of reference flights has been made in good weather to see the reaction of the TAWS. In "normal mode" the TAWS seem to have reacted in a timely manner with Cautions and Warnings. In "tactical mode", supposedly with better resolution than normal mode, no Cautions or Warnings were obtained until passing the point of impact. However tactile mode not available north of latitude N60. Should be mentioned that the reference flights were abandoned approximately 1 nm before the ridge. It's described in paragraph 1.19.10
EDIT: Added some relevant pieces of information
Report: http://www.havkom.se/virtupload/repo...2012-05-10.pdf
My personal reflection of what has been concluded so far:
- HAZE01 was cleared to descend to FL70 and eventually 5000 ft (never read back as it coincided with time of accident) while being outside of controlled airspace, outside of radar coverage and over terrain with higher MORA. The report estimates FL70 being the same level as the point of impact with a QNH of 1000. From reading the report it seems the phraseology was legitimate, though confusing, basically allowing the crew to descend whenever they deemed fit. Other reported occurrences within the airforce with confusing descent clearances are touched upon in paragraph 1.18.8 of the report.
- In paragraph 1.19.6 the AAIB has interviewed people within the Norwegian Airforce. The following information has been brought out:
1) The pilots generally assume that ATC is responsible for terrain separation while flying IFR on a Flight Level
2) The pilots are not aware that Flight Levels need to be corrected for variations in atmospheric pressure
3) The pilots are not aware it's their responsibility to determine lowest useable Flight Level with regards to actual or forecasted QNH
- A series (14 total) of reference flights has been made in good weather to see the reaction of the TAWS. In "normal mode" the TAWS seem to have reacted in a timely manner with Cautions and Warnings. In "tactical mode", supposedly with better resolution than normal mode, no Cautions or Warnings were obtained until passing the point of impact. However tactile mode not available north of latitude N60. Should be mentioned that the reference flights were abandoned approximately 1 nm before the ridge. It's described in paragraph 1.19.10
EDIT: Added some relevant pieces of information
Last edited by 172_driver; 11th May 2012 at 18:57.
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Quite a few in the Norwegian ATC community suspected the findings as outlined.
The rules regarding descend to MSA when performing procedural approach control, and the lack of understanding from crews about the validity of such clearences (or lack therof) regarding terrain clearence is not new.
The rules regarding descend to MSA when performing procedural approach control, and the lack of understanding from crews about the validity of such clearences (or lack therof) regarding terrain clearence is not new.
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"Told by the tower to fly lower than the mountain"
Norwegian media are this Friday evening reporting that the plane was "told by the tower" to fly lower than the height of the mountain, making it sound like it was the tower's fault.
The black boxes will hopefully be found when the snow melts later this spring.
Google Translate
The black boxes will hopefully be found when the snow melts later this spring.
Google Translate
Last edited by roaldp; 11th May 2012 at 17:01.
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Sounds similar to the Ben McDui F15 crash some years back.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7400D...cted_part2.pdf
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7400D...cted_part2.pdf
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Snow will probably hide black boxes until August
Summer has been slow to arrive at Kebnekaise this year, and the snow will probably not melt until August, when the black boxes may be found.
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Snøen gjemmer fortsatt de «svarte boksene» - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
Picture taken of crash site on June 16.
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Snøen gjemmer fortsatt de «svarte boksene» - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
Picture taken of crash site on June 16.
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On another note, last friday the last member of the crew, Lt. Col Ørpen was buried in his home town of Noresund.
During the last 3-4 weeks the other members has been laid to rest in 4 separate cermonies. The mood at work (ATC) got sombre each time the C-130 and 4 F-16s arrived in the Oslo area, marshalling for the C-130 flyby followed by F-16s performing "Missing man" at the grave.
During the last 3-4 weeks the other members has been laid to rest in 4 separate cermonies. The mood at work (ATC) got sombre each time the C-130 and 4 F-16s arrived in the Oslo area, marshalling for the C-130 flyby followed by F-16s performing "Missing man" at the grave.
Last edited by M609; 21st Jun 2012 at 23:40.
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Voice recorder found, seems intact
Hercules plane's black box found at Kebnekaise
Mystery of the Norwegian Hercules plane that crashed against Kebnekaise is heading for its resolution, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reports.
On Saturday morning, the Army's Hunter Battalion found one of the plane's two black boxes, namely the Cockpit Voice Recorder.
"I saw something orange sticking up from the snow," says mountain guide Carl-Johan Olofsson.
Searching operation has been paused until snow melts, and summer has been unusually late in the area this year.
The Norwegian military plane crashed against Sweden's highest mountain, Kebnekaise, on March 15. All five crew members on board were killed.
The Army's Hunting battalion resumed search one week ago together with police and the Investigation Board.
"It's a very steep terrain where you have to lower yourself down with ropes to get anywhere," says Carl-Johan Olofsson.
Found in the snow
At 11 o'clock AM on Saturday the tough work gave results.
The plane's "voice recorder" was found on a steep field. Olofsson says the finding place is only a hundred meters from the crash point - where the Hercules was smashed to pieces.
"Pure coincidence made me see it sticking up from the snow. When I dug it up, I immediately saw the print with Voice Recorder on the device," says Carl-Johan Olofsson.
The device will be stored safely at the police station in Kiruna until it is sent for analysis to the English Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB).
The analysis is expected to take a week and may give vital answers.
Original report in Swedish here:
Herculesplanets svarta låda hittad vid Kebnekaise | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
Mystery of the Norwegian Hercules plane that crashed against Kebnekaise is heading for its resolution, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet reports.
On Saturday morning, the Army's Hunter Battalion found one of the plane's two black boxes, namely the Cockpit Voice Recorder.
"I saw something orange sticking up from the snow," says mountain guide Carl-Johan Olofsson.
Searching operation has been paused until snow melts, and summer has been unusually late in the area this year.
The Norwegian military plane crashed against Sweden's highest mountain, Kebnekaise, on March 15. All five crew members on board were killed.
The Army's Hunting battalion resumed search one week ago together with police and the Investigation Board.
"It's a very steep terrain where you have to lower yourself down with ropes to get anywhere," says Carl-Johan Olofsson.
Found in the snow
At 11 o'clock AM on Saturday the tough work gave results.
The plane's "voice recorder" was found on a steep field. Olofsson says the finding place is only a hundred meters from the crash point - where the Hercules was smashed to pieces.
"Pure coincidence made me see it sticking up from the snow. When I dug it up, I immediately saw the print with Voice Recorder on the device," says Carl-Johan Olofsson.
The device will be stored safely at the police station in Kiruna until it is sent for analysis to the English Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB).
The analysis is expected to take a week and may give vital answers.
Original report in Swedish here:
Herculesplanets svarta låda hittad vid Kebnekaise | Nyheter | Aftonbladet
Last edited by roaldp; 5th Aug 2012 at 04:10. Reason: Lay-out
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Norway gets replacement Hercules aircraft in September
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Norge får nytt Hercules-fly i september - VG Nett om Hercules-ulykken
Original article in Norwegian here:
Norge får nytt Hercules-fly i september - VG Nett om Hercules-ulykken
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Flight Data Recorder also found
Swedish soldiers found the Flight Data Recorder Sunday afternoon; shortly after the Norwegian team had given up their search for now. The FDR will be sent to England for analysis together with the CVR found earlier.
(Sorry that Google Translate reclassifies the Swedish "mountain hunters" as "rock hunters".)
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Ferdsskriveren til det havarerte Herkules-flyet er funnet - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
(Sorry that Google Translate reclassifies the Swedish "mountain hunters" as "rock hunters".)
Google Translate
Original article in Norwegian here:
Ferdsskriveren til det havarerte Herkules-flyet er funnet - Nordland - NRK Nyheter
Last edited by roaldp; 12th Aug 2012 at 16:23.