AFPRB 2012

[Melchett01]

An AVERAGE ILA of 52 days??

I assume they are talking about the mean average rather than mode or median figure? If so, then not entirely unexpected if taken across all 3 Services.

Everybody starts with 38 days. Many will have a full 15 days to carry over which will give them 53 days leave from the start of the leave year. If they then go on ops they could add anywhere between 12 - 20 days post op leave to their leave total.

Others may have other leave issues to take into account e.g. sick leave or relocation leave which will add to their balance - for the year in question I had almost 80 days when you took into account being deployed at the start of the leave year with full carry over, 20 days POL and 5 days relocation leave on posting.

So all in all, I can understand where they got 52.5 from if it is an arithmetic mean. It can be slightly misleading though as it implies people aren't getting their leave. However, all it takes is a couple of years of not being able to take the extra carry over leave and it is very easy to carry 15 days every year whilst still using up your full quota of annual leave.

[Clearedtoroll]

Freezing increases in food and accommodation charges might seem like a reasonable thing to suggest, but I can think of several good reasons not to have done so and think the AFPRB have been sensible so far.

Firstly, it would muddy the water between pay and charges. If charges hadn't increased in line with what the rest of the population *theoretically* have to pay (as well as SP in private accommodation) then it would provide the government with an easy opportunity to say "look, we have given the armed forces an effective pay rise by cutting their charges in real terms". As it is, there is no way the government can argue that this is anything other than than a simple pay freeze.

Secondly, not increasing charges to compensate for a pay freeze is of no benefit to those who do not live in Service accommodation or eat in the mess.

Instead I think we should be pushing (admittedly not sure how) for the AFPRB to make recommendations for pay as they always have. If the government genuinely believes our pay and allowances 'compare favourably' to the private sector then they should let the AFPRB make this analysis in an evidence-based and auditable fashion. If the government feels the need to then decline the recommendations of the AFPRB for budgetary reasons then so be it. Personally, I think a temporary pay cap is probably necessary but the government should have the balls to decline the recommendations rather than preventing the AFPRB from doing its job. The AFPRB has said as much in its own report.

If the AFPRB cannot return to making uncapped recommendations next year then I would hope the members resign on the basis that their independence is compromised. Looking as the CVs of the members, I don't think it is too optimistic to think that might happen; none of them seem like 'yes men'.

Whatever happens, there is going to be a major discrepancy between what the AFPRB recommend and what the MoD believes it can afford. Whether that happens next year or gets hidden behind a cap for another few years will be interesting to see.

[VinRouge]

the 53 will include bank holidays, christmas, easter and any aoc's grant post inspection one imagines. PODL is not annual.

[Jumping_Jack]

For those blathering about the 52 days leave....read the report INCLUDING the footnotes!

6 Comprises Annual Leave Allowance, Seagoers Leave, Post Operational Leave and Authorised Absence. Does not include rest and recuperation, re-engagement leave and relocation leave.

[Climebear]

I can easily seen how that figure can obtained as a mean average. In 2010-11 my ILA was 75 days, comprising:

38 days Annual Leave Allowance (ALA)
15 days carried over ALA
1 day Authorised Absence (IIRC that was the Flt Lt's Wedding holiday)
21 days PODL.

On top of that I had 5 days relocation leave.

Of course there is a difference between a leave allowance and the amount of leave taken.

[teeteringhead]

I assume they are talking about the mean average rather than mode or median figure?

... and always be suspicious of "average" if they don't tell you which it is.

Got told that by a statistics tutor many years ago - and it's still true.

[Dunky]

I believe the phrase "lies, damned lies, and statistics" may be appropriate in this case.

[mayorofgander]

The smoke & mirrors from the AFPRB has obviously worked.....

All we are talking about now is the amount of leave anyone has instead of, the sh1t pay rise, the sh1t rise in charges, the sh1t reduction in LOA/HTD etc & the prospect of SP being messed around with...notwithstanding the pensions robbery to come.

Brilliant!!!

MOG

[baffman]

Agreed, MOG.

Clearedtoroll's post has not had the attention it deserves, in my opinion.

[Jumping_Jack]

Agreed. Indeed, when you read the report it becomes clearer that without the AFPRB sticking it to the MOD we could be paying a whole lot more. The MOD were very much pressing for higher charges accross all grades of accom from the worst to the satisfactory.

[unclenelli]

Tranche 3 by STEALTH

AFPRB2012 = T3 (by stealth)!




or at least part of T3 x stealth:
PAYD
Omlette (cheese, ham & onion) & chips - RAF Halton Lunch £1.80 (3 fillings standard for £1.35 + chips for an extra 45p) - Contract - ESS Compass
Omlette (cheese, ham & extra onion) & chips - RAF Waddington Lunch £1.75 (£1.35 for std 2 fillings + 40p extra filling) - chips free - Contract - ISS Mediclean
Omlette (cheese, ham & extra onion) & chips - RAF Marham Lunch £1.75 (£1.35 for std 2 fillings + 40 extra filling) - chips free - Contract - ISS Mediclean
Omlette (cheese, ham & extra onion) & spuds - RAF Marham Dinner £2.15 (£1.75 for std 2 fillings + 40p extra filling) - spuds free (Chips not on offer)

So a 2 filling omelette & chips can cost between £1.35 (Wad Lunch) - £2.15 (Marham Dinner) - Omelette not available at Halton Dinner (besides it would be £2.20 and also a waste of a "free" filling!)

ALL 4 DIFFERENT PRICES WHICH ARE CORE COST OR ABOVE TO VARYING DEGREES DEPENDENT ON FILLING, LOCATION AND TIME OF DAY FOR EXACTLY THE SAME MEAL!!!!


I'm sure others can think up other T3xS examples!

[Ken Scott]

Unclenelli:

That's a major bit of omlette related research you've carried out......

[dctyke]

There will be egg on their faces over that!

[monkeymanagement]

Well you can't make .... I'll get my coat.

[unclenelli]

I've been travelling a bit lately on det prep.

[StopStart]

ALL 4 DIFFERENT PRICES WHICH ARE CORE COST OR ABOVE TO VARYING DEGREES DEPENDENT ON FILLING, LOCATION AND TIME OF DAY FOR EXACTLY THE SAME MEAL!!!!

Capitals, bold and lots of exclamation marks? That's an awful lot of rage over 80p.

Empirically speaking I would've liked more data on number of eggs per omlette as well as the portion size of the chips/potatoes. Without this I'm afraid I find your presentation somewhat flawed. Comparing like with like however, it is apparent that lunch is £1.75 across the board (with an understandable additional 5p Home Counties weighting at Halton) although there are some additional filling discrepancies that need addressing. I would additionally need to see a breakdown of dinner costings across the board to draw anything further from this deeply depressing eggy survey. That said, I would suggest forwarding details of your OmletteGate findings to the AFPRB and, perhaps, the National Audit Office, who can deal with this scandal head on.

I look forward to hearing your further omlette pricing updates from Theatre. The work you are doing will help make this a country fit for the heroes of our Armed Forces. Or at least those that like omlettes.

PS. I fully expect to see some of the Pprune Grand Knights of The Holy Order of Airworthiness in here shortly, demonstrating quite categorically how omlette pricing is directly linked to airworthiness.

[downsizer]

PS. I fully expect to see some of the PPRuNe Grand Knights of The Holy Order of Airworthiness in here shortly, demonstrating quite categorically how omlette pricing is directly linked to airworthiness.

They won't be interested in omlettes, they are just concerned with the salami slicing. Nobody would eat a salami omlette surely?

[VinRouge]

does chorizo sausage count? I reckon that could be quite nice and continental. Bet its not core menu though.

On a more serious note, why is it that the majority (if not all) of commands are not on Pay as you starve? Is there a reason for this other than their lordships are holding out to the last possible minute before they get subjected to lips and arsehole sausages and a slice tescos value thin base pizza for lunch?

[BEagle]

Is there a reason for this other than their lordships are holding out to the last possible minute before they get subjected to lips and arsehole...

A taste with which they will be only too familiar in their rush for self-promotion, no doubt?

In the real world, you'd have to pay a lot more for a ham omelette and chips than £2.20:

Omelette and Chips

Served with two of the following fillings;

Cheese, Ham, Mushroom OR Tomato £5.30

Courtesy of the Station Café, Alton via 't Interweb. A fine establishment which describes itself as a 'Traditional Cafe catering for workmen, commuters, steam train enthuiasts, Watercress line users and motorcyclists, together with a van delivery service.'

Go upmarket a bit and a typical pub 'light bite' price would be £4.95 for a 2 egg omelette with chips, or £5.95 for the 3 egg version.

I loved this from (it had to be....) an American website:

Ham and cheese omelettes are so called because they have a ham and cheese-based filling.

No $hit, Sherlock!

[The B Word]

These people must have been eggstatic about this thread...

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