Spitfire crash landing in Scotland WW11
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Furthermore,even in a Spitfire it does not take very long to get to Scotland!!Gillan did it in a Hurricane Prewar in about 45 minutes.Therefore having flapped about trying to get your head straight,and having no one else in the same bit of sky after it being full of aircraft a few minutes ago,your mind will wander,and get you disorientated.Above cloud your mind will definitely give your strange ideas,as these guys were not well versed instrument fliers,let alone full IR Rated Master Greens.You have to think of them as no better than student pilots just having got their wings,then equate that experience to your own at the same stage!Now how good were you ,adding the stage fright,adrenalin rush,shaking knees,clammy hands,no one to follow -----what fuel left??The wind has only to be 30 odd degrees off plus another 20 knots as you were quite high still and off on your merry way to the north would be very easy.
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Using 'Downwind' Gillan's effort as an example is a little unrepresentative, with a top speed of 328-335, getting an average speed of over 408mph would have been using full power or very close to it.
Once you've got over the initial panic, training takes over and you'd reduce throttle to loiter and think through your options.
A lot of pilots getting caught above a low cloud base headed east and then let down over the sea to try and get under with no worries about barrage balloons, et al.
Once you've got over the initial panic, training takes over and you'd reduce throttle to loiter and think through your options.
A lot of pilots getting caught above a low cloud base headed east and then let down over the sea to try and get under with no worries about barrage balloons, et al.
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Granted Gillan's downwind advantage,but any mark of Spitfire would be quite significantly faster!Hurricanes were fairly sluggish by comparison!Furthermore in todays world and from the 50s onwards Training would immediately kick in,and you would be a clot with a red endorsement,but look at those times with Pilots going into combat with only a few hours on type,and only Master training on any long distance if any-Land aways were usually for the QFI to lunch with friends on other squadrons.The late Pete Thorn had loads of stories from WW2 Pilots he had met through Reunions and Displays,and most contained fairly frightened images of what occurred.I rest my case.
Land aways were usually for the QFI to lunch with friends on other squadrons
In fact I used to do it in the seventies. Her Majesty's aircraft were merely an extension of my social life.
Thread Starter
Can anyone point me to a source where I can do search with the name of the pilot in question. I have his full name.
He told me he was Canadian, but due to the fact he gave the B+B lady a US address in 1984, she thought he might be American
He told me he was Canadian, but due to the fact he gave the B+B lady a US address in 1984, she thought he might be American
More bang for your buck
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2 things:
This guy might be worth contacting,
from the News & Star
Author searching for clues to air crash sites
Published at 09:04, Thursday, 20 January 2011
I AM a researcher based in Bellingham, Northumberland and one of the authors of the book Air Crash – Northumberland.
I am carrying out research for a proposed follow-up book covering air crashes around the Border Hills, in particular those around Eskdale, Liddesdale and the Bewcastle Fells. The stories for many remain untold. There were several crashes on the hills around Langholm and Newcastleton and no doubt many more further afield.
The article with his phone no, and E-Mail News & Star | Author searching for clues to air crash sites
2)Also from the News & Star Times & Star | Wartime plane crash memories
Three more Hurricanes came down a bit further south and their locations have also been lost . A British pilot flew into a hillside in mist near Riccarton Junction, possibly at Thaube Knowe, in October 1941 and a Canadian was lost when his fighter dived into a hill near Newcastleton in April 1943.
This guy might be worth contacting,
from the News & Star
Author searching for clues to air crash sites
Published at 09:04, Thursday, 20 January 2011
I AM a researcher based in Bellingham, Northumberland and one of the authors of the book Air Crash – Northumberland.
I am carrying out research for a proposed follow-up book covering air crashes around the Border Hills, in particular those around Eskdale, Liddesdale and the Bewcastle Fells. The stories for many remain untold. There were several crashes on the hills around Langholm and Newcastleton and no doubt many more further afield.
The article with his phone no, and E-Mail News & Star | Author searching for clues to air crash sites
2)Also from the News & Star Times & Star | Wartime plane crash memories
Three more Hurricanes came down a bit further south and their locations have also been lost . A British pilot flew into a hillside in mist near Riccarton Junction, possibly at Thaube Knowe, in October 1941 and a Canadian was lost when his fighter dived into a hill near Newcastleton in April 1943.
Thread Starter
Thanks GG. We know about the Newcastleton one from records of a crash guard based there for some time. The Riccarton one is slightly out of range.
We know of a wheels up, belly landing of a Spitfire at Glentress Peebles. For a while we thought that might be it, thinking that the guy might have been confused about location. We also have a lead to a place named Teviothead, that is still in the frame
We now almost certainly have a crash site pretty much exactly where the guy said it was. I have been trying to contact the farmer since yesterday.
The newspaper article comes out tomorrow and we are pinning high hopes on that.
Currently we have the guys exact name, where he overshot and why he crash landed where he did . We need to confirm if we definitely have the right crash location and then see what the newspaper brings.
I will hold off posting all of the info until tomorrow at the request of the newspaper, they are pretty excited about this and they have been a great help.
Added. GG, I have been on to both guys and sent them the link to the thread.
We know of a wheels up, belly landing of a Spitfire at Glentress Peebles. For a while we thought that might be it, thinking that the guy might have been confused about location. We also have a lead to a place named Teviothead, that is still in the frame
We now almost certainly have a crash site pretty much exactly where the guy said it was. I have been trying to contact the farmer since yesterday.
The newspaper article comes out tomorrow and we are pinning high hopes on that.
Currently we have the guys exact name, where he overshot and why he crash landed where he did . We need to confirm if we definitely have the right crash location and then see what the newspaper brings.
I will hold off posting all of the info until tomorrow at the request of the newspaper, they are pretty excited about this and they have been a great help.
Added. GG, I have been on to both guys and sent them the link to the thread.
Last edited by El Grifo; 18th Jan 2012 at 16:08.
The saga continues:......
When young ATA girl delivered the Spitfire back to Biggin she met the Canadian pilot whose aircraft it was. She had never been to London before and he invited her to see the sights. The had dinner and then one thing led to another; it was just another wartime romance.
The next day the ATA Oxford picked her up for her next trip and then he went off on a Rhurbarb sortie over Northern France. Unfortunately he met a very enterprising Focke Wulf 190 pilot and ended up in a field again; this time sans aeroplane. He was shipped off to a comfortable POW camp and knowing what side his bread was buttered settled down to see out the war.
Our pretty ATA pilot, meanwhile, was busy ferrying various aeroplanes from place to place but after a couple of months found that she as getting airsick more often than normal. A trip to the MO revealed that the evening in London had led to a bit more than expected. There was no chance of contacting her Canadian; she was not N of K so it was far too difficult; so she had to give up the job she loved and go home to Selkirk.
There she met and old flame who had just returned on unexpected leave and found that his wife had been supplementing the money he had sent her. They two, with similar but different troubles, got together and when his divorce came through they were married. Her son, now theirs, had an excellent upbringing and when he matured has artistic talent saw him venture into photography and open his own shop.
The Canadian had seen through the war and was now back in Canada. He flew for a time in Canada and then got a job with Pan American. This turned out to be his career and he did the whole thing from Stratocruisers to Boeing 747s. He never did get married; with a plane full of hostesses in the back who would, so he spent his money on property and oil shares.
He retired in the mid eighties and decided to retrace some memories of the war. He was wondering about this pretty young ATA girl he had met and had missed because of the fortunes of war. Whilst he was in the can, he had heard that she was expecting but had no idea whether it was his or not. He remembered his forced landing at Selkirk and also remembered that the ATA girl had mentioned it too so he thought that by going there he may find out what the truth was. Now he was retired and incredibly well heeled he travelled to Selkirk.
He did not want to draw attention to himself so he booked into a small B&B. Somewhere along the way his camera had gone AWOL but luckily there was a photographers shop in the town that might be able to take some photographs for him.
To be continued…
El Grifo
I will delete if you want.
When young ATA girl delivered the Spitfire back to Biggin she met the Canadian pilot whose aircraft it was. She had never been to London before and he invited her to see the sights. The had dinner and then one thing led to another; it was just another wartime romance.
The next day the ATA Oxford picked her up for her next trip and then he went off on a Rhurbarb sortie over Northern France. Unfortunately he met a very enterprising Focke Wulf 190 pilot and ended up in a field again; this time sans aeroplane. He was shipped off to a comfortable POW camp and knowing what side his bread was buttered settled down to see out the war.
Our pretty ATA pilot, meanwhile, was busy ferrying various aeroplanes from place to place but after a couple of months found that she as getting airsick more often than normal. A trip to the MO revealed that the evening in London had led to a bit more than expected. There was no chance of contacting her Canadian; she was not N of K so it was far too difficult; so she had to give up the job she loved and go home to Selkirk.
There she met and old flame who had just returned on unexpected leave and found that his wife had been supplementing the money he had sent her. They two, with similar but different troubles, got together and when his divorce came through they were married. Her son, now theirs, had an excellent upbringing and when he matured has artistic talent saw him venture into photography and open his own shop.
The Canadian had seen through the war and was now back in Canada. He flew for a time in Canada and then got a job with Pan American. This turned out to be his career and he did the whole thing from Stratocruisers to Boeing 747s. He never did get married; with a plane full of hostesses in the back who would, so he spent his money on property and oil shares.
He retired in the mid eighties and decided to retrace some memories of the war. He was wondering about this pretty young ATA girl he had met and had missed because of the fortunes of war. Whilst he was in the can, he had heard that she was expecting but had no idea whether it was his or not. He remembered his forced landing at Selkirk and also remembered that the ATA girl had mentioned it too so he thought that by going there he may find out what the truth was. Now he was retired and incredibly well heeled he travelled to Selkirk.
He did not want to draw attention to himself so he booked into a small B&B. Somewhere along the way his camera had gone AWOL but luckily there was a photographers shop in the town that might be able to take some photographs for him.
To be continued…
El Grifo
I will delete if you want.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 10th Jul 2012 at 09:14.
The old lady who ran the B&B was quite chatty. He mentioned that he had been flying in the UK during the war which reminded her of something. She had an old school friend whose father had taught her to fly before the war. During the war she had been in the ATA moving aeroplanes from one part of the country to another. She had got into trouble with a Canadian pilot hand had come back to Selkirk. Luckily for her everything had worked out all right.
The Canadian then went to the photographers to organise the pictures. He described what and where he wanted done and then went back to the B&B for dinner. Tucking!!!!????!!!! in to haggis and chips he told her about the arrangements he had made. She then dropped the bombshell.
“That photographer is the boy that the girl I was talking about had.”
The Canadian was dumbfounded. All the memories and all the questions came flooding back. What does he do? Does he take his long lost son into his arms or does he run away from it. He wasn’t a hero. He had landed up the hill because he was too scared to bail out. He had sat in a Stalag for three years because he hadn’t had the guts to try and escape. He thought long and hard about every possibility. In the end he had made up his mind so he told the lady that he had had unexpected business and had to leave the next morning.
Next morning as he drove by the photographer’s shop he looked in and confirmed his decision was right.
Wait for it.
He’s too damned ugly to be my son.
The Canadian then went to the photographers to organise the pictures. He described what and where he wanted done and then went back to the B&B for dinner. Tucking!!!!????!!!! in to haggis and chips he told her about the arrangements he had made. She then dropped the bombshell.
“That photographer is the boy that the girl I was talking about had.”
The Canadian was dumbfounded. All the memories and all the questions came flooding back. What does he do? Does he take his long lost son into his arms or does he run away from it. He wasn’t a hero. He had landed up the hill because he was too scared to bail out. He had sat in a Stalag for three years because he hadn’t had the guts to try and escape. He thought long and hard about every possibility. In the end he had made up his mind so he told the lady that he had had unexpected business and had to leave the next morning.
Next morning as he drove by the photographer’s shop he looked in and confirmed his decision was right.
Wait for it.
He’s too damned ugly to be my son.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 9th Jul 2012 at 18:06.
Thread Starter
You know what Fareastdriver ?
You almost had Me convinced there.
Right up to the end I thought you story hung together just perfectly.
Then - - I looked in the mirror and thought - - - NAW !!!!
Gracias
El G
PS.
Bloody story goes to press tomorrow and it appears the farmer, on whose land we are 95% sure the Spit ended up on is on holiday.
Not to worry.
Knowing Selkirk, there should be a fair bit of reaction to the piece.
You almost had Me convinced there.
Right up to the end I thought you story hung together just perfectly.
Then - - I looked in the mirror and thought - - - NAW !!!!
Gracias
El G
PS.
Bloody story goes to press tomorrow and it appears the farmer, on whose land we are 95% sure the Spit ended up on is on holiday.
Not to worry.
Knowing Selkirk, there should be a fair bit of reaction to the piece.
Bloody story goes to press tomorrow and it appears the farmer, on whose land we are 95% sure the Spit ended up on is on holiday.
BTW, back in 1914 when the Titanic sunk, headline on the Aberdeen Press & Journal was along the lines "Tragedy at Sea, Scottish Woman Drowns"
Gentleman Aviator
back in 1914 when the Titanic sunk
And where exactly are you to have missed all the "Titanic Centenary" blah that seems to be everywhere!
Thread Starter
The name of the pilot in question was Harold A.Raasch. He told me that he was Canadian but the landlady at the B+B thought he might be American, only because he gave an address in Sunnydale, California when he first visted the Borders in 1984.
I say "first" because it now transpires that he made annual visits, staying at the same B+B whist enagaged in the search for the crash site.
Regarding the site, we are now awaiting cofirmation that it was at Headshaw farm Ashkirk, a very short distance from Dryden.
A few of you have got it pretty well right regarding the circumstances.
He was supposed to land at Biggin Hill as previously discussed, but overshot due to cloud cover.
He flew towards the East Coast and followed the coastline north.
As visibility improved he spotted a prominent borders landmark off his left side.
This landmark was The Eildon Hills !
He explained to the landlady the he turned towards this landmark in order to get his bearings (her words, not mine)
Pretty soon he ran out of fuel and made a forced landing at what we now presume was Headshaw.
The rest of the tale was explained to the landlady exactly the way I laid it out earlier.
A letter was received by the selfsame landlady in 1990, advising that Harold had died of cancer. Although she no longer has the letter, she supplied us with the original address from 1984. We have written to that address now.
The newspaper has already received a couple of calls and I have been give the phone number of someone in Selkirk who recalls something of the event and wishes to talk to me.
All I can say is try doing a bit of digging in whatever resources are available and watch this space.
Thanks for all of your help !
Cheers
El G.
I say "first" because it now transpires that he made annual visits, staying at the same B+B whist enagaged in the search for the crash site.
Regarding the site, we are now awaiting cofirmation that it was at Headshaw farm Ashkirk, a very short distance from Dryden.
A few of you have got it pretty well right regarding the circumstances.
He was supposed to land at Biggin Hill as previously discussed, but overshot due to cloud cover.
He flew towards the East Coast and followed the coastline north.
As visibility improved he spotted a prominent borders landmark off his left side.
This landmark was The Eildon Hills !
He explained to the landlady the he turned towards this landmark in order to get his bearings (her words, not mine)
Pretty soon he ran out of fuel and made a forced landing at what we now presume was Headshaw.
The rest of the tale was explained to the landlady exactly the way I laid it out earlier.
A letter was received by the selfsame landlady in 1990, advising that Harold had died of cancer. Although she no longer has the letter, she supplied us with the original address from 1984. We have written to that address now.
The newspaper has already received a couple of calls and I have been give the phone number of someone in Selkirk who recalls something of the event and wishes to talk to me.
All I can say is try doing a bit of digging in whatever resources are available and watch this space.
Thanks for all of your help !
Cheers
El G.
Thanks for the update. Nothing in the paper yet, presumably.
If Raasch had already been making annual visits, it does seem a little sad if he felt he had to make an unplanned early departure as a result of your well-intentioned spreading his story around town, following his visit to your photographic studio.
If Raasch had already been making annual visits, it does seem a little sad if he felt he had to make an unplanned early departure as a result of your well-intentioned spreading his story around town, following his visit to your photographic studio.
Thread Starter
Nothing in the paper yet, presumably.
If Raasch had already been making annual visits, it does seem a little sad if he felt he had to make an unplanned early departure as a result of your well-intentioned spreading his story around town, following his visit to your photographic studio.
Departures - RAF Hurricane pilot "Harold Raash" listed here - passed away in 1997 according to the web page.
Roster of POW,WWII POW camp Shumen - also possibly listed here as O-715095 Raasch, Harold Arthur, held in Shumen POW camp (Bulgaria) 1943/1944.
See also R
Roster of POW,WWII POW camp Shumen - also possibly listed here as O-715095 Raasch, Harold Arthur, held in Shumen POW camp (Bulgaria) 1943/1944.
See also R