Spitfire crash landing in Scotland WW11
Avoid imitations
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Sorry, very late to read this thread. However, one question....
is it possible that he was a US Navy SEAL and was looking to retrieve some secret homing equipment from the Spitfire (which obviously didn't work seeing as it had got slightly off course)?
is it possible that he was a US Navy SEAL and was looking to retrieve some secret homing equipment from the Spitfire (which obviously didn't work seeing as it had got slightly off course)?
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just tidying up another of the more off-the-wall ideas, this list http://www.ww2.dk/Lw%20Offz%20-%20L-...ril%202012.pdf indicates there were no WWII Luftwaffe officers named Raasch, though there were for other variants of the name. However nothing seems to fit
Thread Starter
Just talked again to the Mining Museum in Newtongrange. The do not have a visitors book and no one from the period works there now. Another blank !
Send a second email to the "departures" lot but no reply !
Getting to the scraggy end of this search I reckon.
Unless anyone else out there can help.
Send a second email to the "departures" lot but no reply !
Getting to the scraggy end of this search I reckon.
Unless anyone else out there can help.
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I still think we need someone with access to the RAF and/or RCAF enlistments immediately before and during WWII. There must be someone in these "hallowed forums" that knows someone or two people if necessary with this ability.
Thread Starter
Going back over things AA this has to be the codebreaker at least to ID.
Bearing in mind he supplied the address 834 Dartshire Way, Sunnyvale California. Bearing in mind he made his fist visit in June 1984. Bearing in mind a previous sleuth came up with Rev Timothy D Raasch as his son, Bearing in mind the the picture of the aforementioned Rev bears a stunning resemblance to my Harold, and bearing in mind this :-
ID seems almost certain. Motive is the strange one. What was he really up to. What was he trying to achieve.
Let's face it he had Air Corps history.
El G.
Harold Raasch (1924) 1930 Census Record:-
Name: Harold Raasch
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1924
Birthplace: Wisconsin
Race: White
Home in 1930: Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Alfred Raasch
Father's Birthplace: Wisconsin
Mother's name: Anna Raasch
Mother's Birthplace: Wisconsin
Occupation:
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Raasch 39
Anna Raasch 41
Alfred Raasch 7
Harold Raasch 6
Marcella Raasch 3
Family Trees:
This Harold is found in the Raasch family tree on Ancestry. He married a Janice Marie Kennedy born 17 June 1923 in New Philadelphia, Ohio and died 5 July 1983 in Sunnyvale, California. In this tree there is only one child, (a boy), who's details are private.
He also appears in the Leggett/Liggett Family tree and marries Janice there too... In this tree there are 3 children, (1 girl and two boys), with private details too. This tree confirms the enlistment record, 1930 Census record and the death record I had already found. This record of Harold was added to the Ancestry tree by a certain tdraasch... Dear, dear Timothy...
He also appears in a Graf Family tree which confirms his parents as Alfred Raasch and Anna (Reitz) Raasch.
Timothy Raasch also has a family tree of his own that references Harold Raasch born in 1924 - the tree is in the name tdraasch confirming the link in the Leggett/Liggett tree above.
Army Enlistment Record:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Birth Year: 1924
Race: White, citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: Wisconsin
State of Residence: Wisconsin
County or City: Milwaukee
Enlistment Date: 5 Jan 1943
Enlistment State: South Carolina
Enlistment City: Shaw Field Sumter
Branch: Air Corps
Branch Code: Air Corps
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law Component: Reserves - exclusive of Regular Army Reserve and Officers of the Officers Reserve Corps on active duty under the Thomason Act (Officers and Enlisted Men -- O.R.C. and E.R.C., and Nurses-Reserve Status)
Source: Enlisted Reserve or Medical Administrative Corps (MAC) Officer
Education: 4 years of high school
Civil Occupation: Occupations in manufacture of automobiles, n.e.c.
Marital Status: Single, without dependents
Height: 00
Weight: 100
This enlistment record is confirmed here and gives his service number as 16089455:-
http://files.usgwarchives.net/wi/mil...enli134gmt.txt
The thought that this Harold A Raasch is the same one that was in the Bulgarian Prison Camp is therefore "shot down", (pun intended), by the fact that the chap in the camp had a serial number O-715095 as witnessed here:-
WorldWar2.ro Forum -> Shumen POW camp
Post War Information:-
In 1954 Harold was at Robins AFB Georgia with his wife where he worked as a Historical Service(s) Director:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1954
Street Address: 2717 Cherokee av
Residence Place: Macon, Georgia
Occupation: Historical Serv Dir
Spouse: Janice M Raasch
Publication Title: Macon, Georgia, City Directory, 1954
In 1956 Harold and Janice were in Decatur GA where he was an Assistant Professor at the University of Georgia:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1956
Street Address: Decatur GA
Residence Place: Atlanta, Georgia
Occupation: Asst Prof
Spouse: Janice M Raasch
Publication Title: Atlanta, Georgia, City Directory, 1956
In 1961 it's quite probable that this record is them having moved to Manchester, New Hampshire where he worked as a scheduler at the US Tracking Station, New Boston, (see New Boston Air Force Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1961
Residence Place: Manchester, New Hampshire
Occupation: Scheduler
Spouse: Janice Raasch
Publication Title: Manchester, New Hampshire, City Directory, 1961
This is most probably a list of his later addresses:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Address: 633 King St Apt 12, Santa Rosa, CA, 95404-3852
[2980 Bay Village Cir # B, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403-3613]
[1945 Piner Trlr Rd 3, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403]
[1945 Piner Trlr Rd 38, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403]
[7051 Fellers Ln, Sebastopol, CA, 95472-4479 (1994)]
So, to summarize. Harold Arthur Raasch was born on the 21st February 1924 in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Prior to his enlistment at 19 years of age he worked for an automobile manufacturer. He joined the Army Air Force at Shaw Field, Sumpter, South Carolina as a private on the 5th Jan 1943. At the time of enlistment he was unmarried. Some time later he married a Janice Marie Kennedy and had three children. He spent some time on the East Coast doing various jobs including being an assistant professor at the University of Georgia. Some time after 1961 the family moved to California. He is almost certainly the father of a Timothy D Raasch who was born in 1955 which fits with his already being married in 1954 in Macon, Georgia. Harold died on my birthday, 20th February 2000 just the day before his 76th birthday.
I find it difficult to believe that our, (most probably), factory working Harold joined as a private in 1943 and became a Spitfire pilot flying out of Biggin Hill by the end of the war. T'is little wonder the Reverend Timothy D. Raasch has become so uncooperative...
Name: Harold Raasch
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1924
Birthplace: Wisconsin
Race: White
Home in 1930: Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Alfred Raasch
Father's Birthplace: Wisconsin
Mother's name: Anna Raasch
Mother's Birthplace: Wisconsin
Occupation:
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Raasch 39
Anna Raasch 41
Alfred Raasch 7
Harold Raasch 6
Marcella Raasch 3
Family Trees:
This Harold is found in the Raasch family tree on Ancestry. He married a Janice Marie Kennedy born 17 June 1923 in New Philadelphia, Ohio and died 5 July 1983 in Sunnyvale, California. In this tree there is only one child, (a boy), who's details are private.
He also appears in the Leggett/Liggett Family tree and marries Janice there too... In this tree there are 3 children, (1 girl and two boys), with private details too. This tree confirms the enlistment record, 1930 Census record and the death record I had already found. This record of Harold was added to the Ancestry tree by a certain tdraasch... Dear, dear Timothy...
He also appears in a Graf Family tree which confirms his parents as Alfred Raasch and Anna (Reitz) Raasch.
Timothy Raasch also has a family tree of his own that references Harold Raasch born in 1924 - the tree is in the name tdraasch confirming the link in the Leggett/Liggett tree above.
Army Enlistment Record:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Birth Year: 1924
Race: White, citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: Wisconsin
State of Residence: Wisconsin
County or City: Milwaukee
Enlistment Date: 5 Jan 1943
Enlistment State: South Carolina
Enlistment City: Shaw Field Sumter
Branch: Air Corps
Branch Code: Air Corps
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law Component: Reserves - exclusive of Regular Army Reserve and Officers of the Officers Reserve Corps on active duty under the Thomason Act (Officers and Enlisted Men -- O.R.C. and E.R.C., and Nurses-Reserve Status)
Source: Enlisted Reserve or Medical Administrative Corps (MAC) Officer
Education: 4 years of high school
Civil Occupation: Occupations in manufacture of automobiles, n.e.c.
Marital Status: Single, without dependents
Height: 00
Weight: 100
This enlistment record is confirmed here and gives his service number as 16089455:-
http://files.usgwarchives.net/wi/mil...enli134gmt.txt
The thought that this Harold A Raasch is the same one that was in the Bulgarian Prison Camp is therefore "shot down", (pun intended), by the fact that the chap in the camp had a serial number O-715095 as witnessed here:-
WorldWar2.ro Forum -> Shumen POW camp
Post War Information:-
In 1954 Harold was at Robins AFB Georgia with his wife where he worked as a Historical Service(s) Director:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1954
Street Address: 2717 Cherokee av
Residence Place: Macon, Georgia
Occupation: Historical Serv Dir
Spouse: Janice M Raasch
Publication Title: Macon, Georgia, City Directory, 1954
In 1956 Harold and Janice were in Decatur GA where he was an Assistant Professor at the University of Georgia:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1956
Street Address: Decatur GA
Residence Place: Atlanta, Georgia
Occupation: Asst Prof
Spouse: Janice M Raasch
Publication Title: Atlanta, Georgia, City Directory, 1956
In 1961 it's quite probable that this record is them having moved to Manchester, New Hampshire where he worked as a scheduler at the US Tracking Station, New Boston, (see New Boston Air Force Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Name: Harold A Raasch
Gender: M (Male)
Residence Year: 1961
Residence Place: Manchester, New Hampshire
Occupation: Scheduler
Spouse: Janice Raasch
Publication Title: Manchester, New Hampshire, City Directory, 1961
This is most probably a list of his later addresses:-
Name: Harold A Raasch
Address: 633 King St Apt 12, Santa Rosa, CA, 95404-3852
[2980 Bay Village Cir # B, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403-3613]
[1945 Piner Trlr Rd 3, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403]
[1945 Piner Trlr Rd 38, Santa Rosa, CA, 95403]
[7051 Fellers Ln, Sebastopol, CA, 95472-4479 (1994)]
So, to summarize. Harold Arthur Raasch was born on the 21st February 1924 in Milwaukee Wisconsin. Prior to his enlistment at 19 years of age he worked for an automobile manufacturer. He joined the Army Air Force at Shaw Field, Sumpter, South Carolina as a private on the 5th Jan 1943. At the time of enlistment he was unmarried. Some time later he married a Janice Marie Kennedy and had three children. He spent some time on the East Coast doing various jobs including being an assistant professor at the University of Georgia. Some time after 1961 the family moved to California. He is almost certainly the father of a Timothy D Raasch who was born in 1955 which fits with his already being married in 1954 in Macon, Georgia. Harold died on my birthday, 20th February 2000 just the day before his 76th birthday.
I find it difficult to believe that our, (most probably), factory working Harold joined as a private in 1943 and became a Spitfire pilot flying out of Biggin Hill by the end of the war. T'is little wonder the Reverend Timothy D. Raasch has become so uncooperative...
This Harold is found in the Raasch family tree on Ancestry. He married a Janice Marie Kennedy born 17 June 1923 in New Philadelphia, Ohio and died 5 July 1983 in Sunnyvale, California. In this tree there is only one child, (a boy), who's details are private.
Let's face it he had Air Corps history.
El G.
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OK, I think personally its time to close this thread down.
Despite the Lt.Col's history showing no similarity to the story told to you by the visitor you insist in perpetuating the theory that he was the man you met.
Lets look at it
The Lt Col was a Bomabardier not a pilot
Theres no record of him serving in the UK
He was born in Wisconsin, not Canada
The date of birth doesn't match with the notification from your visitors daughter.
All these points together indicate clearly that you have the wrong man.
Besides which you have a specific statement from his son stating that your comments were wrong, and also requesting that you desist from investigating his father further.
We have a possible candidate in the "Hurricane Pilot" Raasch listed on that veterans reunion website. Unfortunately we've been unable to get more details, but what we know seems to fit better: certainly that man had RAF or RCAF wings
Its time to stop this now - unless anyone can find out more about that mans (I mean the Hurricane pilot) history. Hankering after someone who is clearly the wrong man and inventing spurious theories about his behavior simply discredits the site, and perpetuates any annoyance to the family.
Despite the Lt.Col's history showing no similarity to the story told to you by the visitor you insist in perpetuating the theory that he was the man you met.
Lets look at it
The Lt Col was a Bomabardier not a pilot
Theres no record of him serving in the UK
He was born in Wisconsin, not Canada
The date of birth doesn't match with the notification from your visitors daughter.
All these points together indicate clearly that you have the wrong man.
Besides which you have a specific statement from his son stating that your comments were wrong, and also requesting that you desist from investigating his father further.
We have a possible candidate in the "Hurricane Pilot" Raasch listed on that veterans reunion website. Unfortunately we've been unable to get more details, but what we know seems to fit better: certainly that man had RAF or RCAF wings
Its time to stop this now - unless anyone can find out more about that mans (I mean the Hurricane pilot) history. Hankering after someone who is clearly the wrong man and inventing spurious theories about his behavior simply discredits the site, and perpetuates any annoyance to the family.
Thread Starter
Milo, whilst I agree with some of what you are saying, with the actual coincidences which appear in my prior post, as opposed to the suppositions and internet searches, I am not so sure about your conclusion.
There is no reference in AA's research to say he was a Lt Col and his son did not say my comments were wrong. The landlady was never given a date of birth she only recalls getting a letter advising of Harolds death. She said it might have been sometime in the nineties but is not sure. I never left the area until 1993 and was never advised of any such thing prior to leaving
No harm is being done here, only research into particularly strange occurrence.
A search is being done by an agency into the records of the huge estate on which the crash landing occured, whatever that crash landing it was. They have extensive records. if the information is not too sensitive we may get nearer to the truth.
The "Departures" site has sadly produced no reply which is unfortunate. As you rightly point out, they key to this event may lie there.
If we remain on track, I do not see why the investigation should continue provided as I say it remains on the right track.
Strange things happened during wartime this might be very pedestrian or it might fall into the former category.
AA's research has thrown up some actualities which are worth exploring further, if, as I say, we keep on the right side of the tracks.
Don't give up now Milo.
There is no reference in AA's research to say he was a Lt Col and his son did not say my comments were wrong. The landlady was never given a date of birth she only recalls getting a letter advising of Harolds death. She said it might have been sometime in the nineties but is not sure. I never left the area until 1993 and was never advised of any such thing prior to leaving
No harm is being done here, only research into particularly strange occurrence.
A search is being done by an agency into the records of the huge estate on which the crash landing occured, whatever that crash landing it was. They have extensive records. if the information is not too sensitive we may get nearer to the truth.
The "Departures" site has sadly produced no reply which is unfortunate. As you rightly point out, they key to this event may lie there.
If we remain on track, I do not see why the investigation should continue provided as I say it remains on the right track.
Strange things happened during wartime this might be very pedestrian or it might fall into the former category.
AA's research has thrown up some actualities which are worth exploring further, if, as I say, we keep on the right side of the tracks.
Don't give up now Milo.
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I think that we should wait some time and see if the veteran organisation answers.
EL Grifo send the first email 4 days ago - give them time to answer.
They may also have to do some digging in their files - the "Hurricane Harold" died 15 years ago.
And they do not necessarily check the inbox every day, as some people do!
I am convinced that the website is correct, i.e. there was a H.R. who flew with RAF or RCAF wings. This pilot might have force landed a Hurricane south of Selkirk, and he might have returned years later and approached El Grifo, as he reports.
He might also have been Canadian, as he reported - being a Canadian may also explain that AA is unable to find any death record for this man(?).
But I agree with Milo with regard to the Lt. Col - over and out, as we said on
the radio.
EL Grifo send the first email 4 days ago - give them time to answer.
They may also have to do some digging in their files - the "Hurricane Harold" died 15 years ago.
And they do not necessarily check the inbox every day, as some people do!
I am convinced that the website is correct, i.e. there was a H.R. who flew with RAF or RCAF wings. This pilot might have force landed a Hurricane south of Selkirk, and he might have returned years later and approached El Grifo, as he reports.
He might also have been Canadian, as he reported - being a Canadian may also explain that AA is unable to find any death record for this man(?).
But I agree with Milo with regard to the Lt. Col - over and out, as we said on
the radio.
Last edited by grebllaw123d; 12th Jul 2012 at 19:51.
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My 2c:
You could wait several months for the Departures site to respond... Have patience.
Put a note in your calendar to revisit the sites that provided evidence and good old Google again.
Milo:
I say this purely due to the concern I raised before regarding the probability of two aircraft coming down in the same field. I think Lt. Col. Raasch is the man El G met. I really don't think he crashed/landed or ever even flew a Spit or Hurricane. I have no idea what he was doing there and why he was telling that story. It's possible that time will tell. It's my experience with genealogy that the mystery will most probably never be solved. That's life.
Pom:
Why, of all places to fly out of, did the RNAF decide to fly out of Dildo, Newfoundland...
You could wait several months for the Departures site to respond... Have patience.
Put a note in your calendar to revisit the sites that provided evidence and good old Google again.
Milo:
I say this purely due to the concern I raised before regarding the probability of two aircraft coming down in the same field. I think Lt. Col. Raasch is the man El G met. I really don't think he crashed/landed or ever even flew a Spit or Hurricane. I have no idea what he was doing there and why he was telling that story. It's possible that time will tell. It's my experience with genealogy that the mystery will most probably never be solved. That's life.
Pom:
Why, of all places to fly out of, did the RNAF decide to fly out of Dildo, Newfoundland...
I say please keep on trucking - the annswer could come sooner than we might think.
And, oh, regarding Why, of all places to fly out of, did the RNAF decide to fly out of Dildo, Newfoundland...
.....
Because they wanted to stick out from the crowd of course!
Jack
And, oh, regarding Why, of all places to fly out of, did the RNAF decide to fly out of Dildo, Newfoundland...
.....Because they wanted to stick out from the crowd of course!
Jack
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Airborne Aircrew
the RNAF is a windup - its a spoof
see The Pink and the Black - The Royal Newfoundland Air Force > Vintage Wings of Canada
the RNAF is a windup - its a spoof
see The Pink and the Black - The Royal Newfoundland Air Force > Vintage Wings of Canada
