Iran Threatens to Close Strait of Hormuz
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USS Abraham Lincoln, USN escort, HMS Argyll and something French sail through the Strait.
Britain, US and France send warships through Strait of Hormuz - Telegraph
Britain, US and France send warships through Strait of Hormuz - Telegraph
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Iran/Hormuz becomes the "new" flashpoint. Petrol/diesel shoots up thru £2 in the UK. We deploy...
What we REALLY need is a UK LRMPA. Doh!
I'm not suggesting it would be a total solution to the problem, but already the BBC are showing current footage of Iranian mini-subs and Kilos........
What we REALLY need is a UK LRMPA. Doh!
I'm not suggesting it would be a total solution to the problem, but already the BBC are showing current footage of Iranian mini-subs and Kilos........
My guess is that if EU buys less Iranian oil, the Chinese might buy a bit more. 
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Shy talk
Why would that be?
If they threaten the UK- that'd be different. But what chance is there of that?
I repeat. I've no quarrel with the Iranians and as far as I know, they've no quarrel with us either.
Leave the feckers alone!
23rd Jan 2012 14:01
So you think the Iranian religious mafia are not a threat? B****x!! They are flexing their muscles on the world stage, pulling the strings of a few terrorist networks and generally wiping out all, in their own country, who disagree with them! Good enough reasons IMO to stand up to them and never, for all our sakes, let them get their hands on a nuclear weapon.
Why would that be?
If they threaten the UK- that'd be different. But what chance is there of that?
I repeat. I've no quarrel with the Iranians and as far as I know, they've no quarrel with us either.
Leave the feckers alone!
23rd Jan 2012 14:01
So you think the Iranian religious mafia are not a threat? B****x!! They are flexing their muscles on the world stage, pulling the strings of a few terrorist networks and generally wiping out all, in their own country, who disagree with them! Good enough reasons IMO to stand up to them and never, for all our sakes, let them get their hands on a nuclear weapon.
Given that the Iranian political authority does not leave others alone, your demand that they be left alone seems one sided.
1. Have you ever heard of the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie?
Over a book? He remains under sentence to death for writing bad fiction, on religious grounds, hence blasphemy. (I read the book after it came out, partly to see what the fuss was, partly to expand my reading horizons. Rushdie never met pith.) Granted, the book wasn't very good, but it wasn't worth killing him over it.
That policy, the fatwa, remains in place, over twenty years later, and caused trouble at a book club/meeting in India recently.
2. You might also find a few Sunni Iraqis who can tell you that Iran's meddling in Iraq is not welcome.
I find your PoV a bit too narrow to be credible, for all that some of the World's various powers may have clumsy policy arms their own selves.
1. Have you ever heard of the fatwa issued against Salman Rushdie?
Over a book? He remains under sentence to death for writing bad fiction, on religious grounds, hence blasphemy. (I read the book after it came out, partly to see what the fuss was, partly to expand my reading horizons. Rushdie never met pith.) Granted, the book wasn't very good, but it wasn't worth killing him over it.
That policy, the fatwa, remains in place, over twenty years later, and caused trouble at a book club/meeting in India recently.
2. You might also find a few Sunni Iraqis who can tell you that Iran's meddling in Iraq is not welcome.
I find your PoV a bit too narrow to be credible, for all that some of the World's various powers may have clumsy policy arms their own selves.
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If they threaten the UK- that'd be different. But what chance is there of that?
The BBC were reporting that the US Navy's sailing a carrier battle group through the Straits today. Accompanied by a UK Frigate and AN other warship- I forget whose.
More Willy waving.
Also that the West will no longer buy Irans' oil -seems we were buying 20% of it. We'd prefer it if other Countries would stop buying it too.
I've no quarrel with the Iranians.
More Willy waving.
Also that the West will no longer buy Irans' oil -seems we were buying 20% of it. We'd prefer it if other Countries would stop buying it too.
I've no quarrel with the Iranians.
I don't believe in this context anyone has a quarrel with Iran, apart from Israel, who have been directly threatened. So are you suggesting that we all sit back and wait and see what develops? Without any attempt on anyone's part, apart from Israel, to do anything about it.
If that was to happen, where do you thnk it would end, and would you be one those breathing fire over the "Condems" or whatever, for not doing anything before matters got out of hand?
FB
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The "slippery slope" argument is a logical fallacy used to publicly justify action which is desirable for other reasons (Realpolitik). Iran has other WMD (chemical and biological, as well as the easy access to radiological that any semi-developed country has) and has singularly failed to use them either openly or by proxy. Where do I think it will end? Iran will feel a bit safer and the West/Israel will have to treat them with a bit more respect than we do now.
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Why? It's got fekk-all to do with us. Let the inhabitants of the ME clean up their own mess- should one be made. Which, again, I think's unlikely.
And give me one good reason why they should do otherwise?
Respect has to be earned.
Respect has to be earned.
Who exactly is in a position to earn the respect of whom? Who took a number of who's citizens hostage? Who threatened to wipe who off the face of the earth? Who runs their coutnry like a hideous medieval torture chamber?
Over to you!
FB
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I don't.
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Strait of Hormuz
Perhaps our fishhead colleagues could comment on the wisdom of sending a frigate into an area probably abounding in anti-ship missiles, and relying on uncle Sam's AEW who just might be too busy to tell us what is coming.
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I too have no beef with Iranians. I've met plenty and all of them could show us how to be effortlessly polite. I also understand that they quite like the British.
The only Iranian I didn't like when I met him was a minder sent over with some businessmen looking to purchase some machinery I had for sale which would help them build Hillman Hunters.
The deal fell through because of the export credit guarantee department but the minder gave me the creeps.
I think some posters are mixing up day to day people with the regime and especially that wiley fox Askformydinnerjacketdad. As ever one or two people at the top are taring a nation with their brush.
SGC
The only Iranian I didn't like when I met him was a minder sent over with some businessmen looking to purchase some machinery I had for sale which would help them build Hillman Hunters.
The deal fell through because of the export credit guarantee department but the minder gave me the creeps.
I think some posters are mixing up day to day people with the regime and especially that wiley fox Askformydinnerjacketdad. As ever one or two people at the top are taring a nation with their brush.
SGC
So if there is any risk of the device being used outside of the Middle East then shouldn't the West take whatever steps are required to prevent the risk arising in the first place?
Oh wait they supplied them with Billions more in arms and who is more unstable ?
Iran or Pakistan....
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Exnomad
Ok, It is perfectly reasonable to send a frigate into a hostile area.
One might even suggest that that is what they are for.
A Type 23 can look after itself against quite a serious air threat no problem and can look after others against a ASW threat. If you want to look after somebody else in the air environment, then you need a 42 or 45.
Hope that helps
Ok, It is perfectly reasonable to send a frigate into a hostile area.
One might even suggest that that is what they are for.
A Type 23 can look after itself against quite a serious air threat no problem and can look after others against a ASW threat. If you want to look after somebody else in the air environment, then you need a 42 or 45.
Hope that helps
shy, nobody gets to be left alone, nobody
I find your refrain insisting on such to be unrealistic, and naive
That said:
So what?
You seem to have a problem with maintaining the plot of a conversation here.
Just because the US is bothering with Iran does not mean they are free to bother others without being bothered. They do as all others do, bother about with others as they can, which is the complaint you are having with the US here. You are being patently inconsistent.
I am not suggesting that anyone start a war over SR, Lord knows he's not worth it. The fatwa is a matter of record, and is an example of people BOTHERING OTHERS across borders, which was started by some busy body PERSIANS who you are defending ineptly at the moment. They deserve better, see widger's input.
Rushdie is not Persian, as you know ... which I think Persians in general are grateful for.
Since I am not doing so, don't come whinging to me over that.
Agree, and that's from the US side of the pond.
I don't think you understand what the word "nobody" means, and it appears that there are people, some of them in my country, who most certainly do. I am not one of them.
Not possible, but "leave them alone" seems a rather broad appeal. "Don't start a war" is a good line to take, however, from where I sit.
You don't get to hide when you are a wannabe power, or more accurately for Persians, an once were, or a has been, power .... sorta like the UK.
People can "not be left alone" short of war, which has been going on with Iran for quite some time, ebb and flow.
See my first sentence in this post.
Nobody gets left alone.
It's called globalization, and it's been going on since about the fifteenth century.
It made the British Empire possible.
It made America's wealth possible.
It will make a lot of Chinese bloody, filthy, rich.
It is making a lot of Brazillians rich as well.
I find your refrain insisting on such to be unrealistic, and naive
That said:
Lonewolf.
When it comes to 'not leaving people alone', the US is up there at numero uno!
When it comes to 'not leaving people alone', the US is up there at numero uno!
You seem to have a problem with maintaining the plot of a conversation here.
Just because the US is bothering with Iran does not mean they are free to bother others without being bothered. They do as all others do, bother about with others as they can, which is the complaint you are having with the US here. You are being patently inconsistent.
Fatwa my arse. SR is still poncing about like a baldy version of Stephen Fry but I agree that being an irititating tw@t is not enough to justify an automatic death sentence and it's certainly not enough to justify starting another war, is it?
Rushdie is not Persian, as you know ... which I think Persians in general are grateful for.
I'm sick of hearing the Persians demonised.
There's no money for a new war.
Nobody wants it.
Nobody needs it. Leave them alone.
You don't get to hide when you are a wannabe power, or more accurately for Persians, an once were, or a has been, power .... sorta like the UK.
People can "not be left alone" short of war, which has been going on with Iran for quite some time, ebb and flow.
See my first sentence in this post.
Nobody gets left alone.
It's called globalization, and it's been going on since about the fifteenth century.
It made the British Empire possible.
It made America's wealth possible.
It will make a lot of Chinese bloody, filthy, rich.
It is making a lot of Brazillians rich as well.
Who gave the Iranians the Oh-so-lovely Shah? Was that us showing them respect?
We'd do better to leave these guys (and a lot of others) alone.
One minute, they're our big pals. (Shah time in Iran).
Next minute, it's hostages, Oil wars, Mad Mullahs and a big fall-out.
You can only wonder what yer average Persian in the street must think.
Leave.
Them.
Alone!
We'd do better to leave these guys (and a lot of others) alone.
One minute, they're our big pals. (Shah time in Iran).
Next minute, it's hostages, Oil wars, Mad Mullahs and a big fall-out.
You can only wonder what yer average Persian in the street must think.
Leave.
Them.
Alone!
Like all those who are certain about the western hemisphere being the sole home of all the planet's bad guys, you make your points with a good deal of selective care. Are you trying to say that the Ayatollah attempted an accommodation with the U.S. from the outset and got an unexpected brush off after deposing the Shah? I don't flipping well think so.
FB