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The C27's are a coming

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The C27's are a coming

Old 21st Dec 2011, 06:02
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The C27's are a coming

RAAF has announced that 10 C27 transports are to be purchased to replace the Carbou.

To be built by Boeing to USAF build standard.

Will be nice to have a light tactical transport again

Regards

Col
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 06:33
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Where is the link to the Gov't announcement ?

I just posted a link to a news article on the C17 thread (trying to keep all the Aussie related stuff together).

It didn't say definitely that they had purchased the C27's.



Edit

Link to the other thread c-17-raaf
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...7-raaf-11.html
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 08:49
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Whilst not an Australian Government press release, it is however a US DOD press release of a possible sale to Australia of the C-27J and related support.

Estimated cost of the whole package $950 million, and I assume that's USD not AUSD.

http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36...alia_11-51.pdf
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 09:09
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herkman

How can you call Caribou nice ?

Bumpiest ride I've ever been on
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 16:49
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Herkman,

What's the story here? I thought C-27 was built by Alenia and Lockheed Martin. Isn't it an upgraded G-222? Sorry, probably a massively upgraded G-222.

Courtney
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Old 21st Dec 2011, 16:54
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That was my understanding. It's the massive amount of US stuff in it.


herkman
My apologise.
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Old 22nd Dec 2011, 21:22
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To be built by Boeing to USAF build standard.
I thought C-27 was built by Alenia and Lockheed Martin.
L-3 is actually the prime for the US program and will be for Australia. The aircraft will be built by Alenia, flown to the US 'green' (to Cecil Field I think), and equipped to US ANG standard by L-3.

Lockheed was involved in the initial C-27J design process (hence the C-130J systems commonality) but dropped out in the early 2000s when the projected numbers failed to materialise. Boeing was going to be prime for the ~138 order USAF/Army JCA, but dropped out when JCA was wound back.

Last edited by FoxtrotAlpha18; 22nd Dec 2011 at 22:02.
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Old 23rd Dec 2011, 00:06
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Lockheed was involved in the initial C-27J design process (hence the C-130J systems commonality) but dropped out in the early 2000s when the projected numbers failed to materialise. Boeing was going to be prime for the ~138 order USAF/Army JCA, but dropped out when JCA was wound back.
I believe only 38 aircraft have been ordered by the USAF for ANG use, but not all these have been funded. From what I can determine, L3 'production' so far has only been around 20 aircraft.
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Old 27th Dec 2011, 22:43
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JCA was cut from 138 to 78, and then when JCA folded it went to 38 with ANG units only. It may end up being <15 now that USAF and Army have parted ways on how/who best to operate it.

USAF wants more C-130Js.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 01:25
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Seems like the RAAF may have been made an offer they can't refuse then....
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 04:27
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FMS approval and final price hasn't been sent back yet. Due mid Jan, with second pass to follow soon after.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 04:40
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Naturally, the Air Dispatchers have been kept completely out of the loop

This sounds like good news in terms of additional capability. But will these be 'Son of Caribou' or 'Herc Mini-Me'? Will ADs be allowed to set foot inside them or will the Loadie Mafia prevent filthy AJs from touching them?

LAPES? The brochure shows them doing it ...
Basing?

What's the ALG rumour mill saying?
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 05:04
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What's the ALG rumour mill saying?
Heard nothing, but I would guess with 38SQN at TVL, one at DN, one at PEA, with one rotating through Albatross as required.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 06:52
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WASHINGTON, Dec 19 (Reuters) - The Pentagon said on Monday it approved the sale to Australia of 10 C-27J transport aircraft built by L-3 Communications Holdings Inc and Finmeccanica SpA unit Alenia, as well as associated equipment, in a deal worth about $950 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees major arms sales, said it notified Congress on Friday about the sale, which would also include 23 engines built by Britain's Rolls-Royce Group Plc and an array of sensors and radar systems. U.S. lawmakers have 30 days to block the sale, although such action is rare. The Pentagon agency said the proposed sale would allow the Australian Defense Force (ADF) to improve its capability to meet current and future air mobility needs and humanitarian operations and disaster relief efforts in Southeast Asia.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 10:06
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Think H model replacement rather than Caribou and that might suggest where they will be based.

I would suspect 38SQN would keep the kingair rather than getting rid of the capability 4-5 years after getting it....
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 20:55
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The C-27 Spartan is more or less a mini-Herc not having comparable characteristics of the Caribou for remote regional wet tropics operations. Yet another move downgrading proven capabilities for operations in Australia's near neighbourhood. Only an upgraded 'Bou would adequately replace its predecessor.
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Old 28th Dec 2011, 21:54
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B71, your key assumption is that the role hasn't changed. The whole AO of the ADF has shifted. Basing a need on a few trips to some remote corners of PNG to qualify the Caribou replacement is outdated. The Chinook can do that short rage small airfield stuff better than a 'bou.

The C-27J mission is very different. Transiting from TVL to DRW in a Caribou is an all day affair with no payload to speak of is where the Spartan beats the 'bou hands down. It is also equipped for ops in A/Stan or other likely hot spots.
You may recall the Caribou operations with the UN in the Kashmir last century. The aircraft could barely clear some of the mountains up there without any real payload.

Like the airlines moving on from the DC-3 it is time to move on from the wonderful Caribou...
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Old 29th Dec 2011, 02:13
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Word is 35SQN will be resurrected within 84WG for the C-27Js and will be based at Richmond.

If the Penn-turbo or similar mod is such a good idea, why hasn't anyone else done it? It's time to step away from the 'upgrade 40+ year old airframes' mentality.

The C-27J will be a mini-Herc with some STOL capability, but nothing except a V-22 can replace a Caribou.
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Old 29th Dec 2011, 05:10
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The other version of that is that 38 Sqn will hand their late model KA350's to 32 Sqn who phase their older models out and 38 will get the C-27's. Hawker Pacific I think have tied up the C-27 maintenance and are planning to use their big hangar in TVL.

Oh, time will tell. Either way it's a good move for Ronnie-RAAF....
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Old 29th Dec 2011, 09:29
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C-27J replacing C130H ???

Gundog01. The only aircraft which can replace the C130H is the C130J. The Spartan certainly could not be considered a replacement for the C130H, two very different aircraft with very different capabilities.
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