If Carlsberg ran Air Forces they would probably be the best in the world...
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If Carlsberg ran Air Forces they would probably be the best in the world...
Right ho, there's lot of bickering about the RAF at present so what would YOU do differently? Let's have some ideas. Here's mine to start:
1. Flat rate allowances - no more receipts and caps, just a flat rate; win some, lose some.
2. Running capability requirements via the front-line, not just some rubber blotter jotter in the MOD who may not have touched an aircraft in years.
3. Carry more than 15 days of leave over or get recompensed for your daily rate of pay for every day you don't take.
4. Scrap all other branches apart from engineers, intel branch and aircrew - and then man to the right numbers. Rocks can join the Army, Coppers are MPGS and all others are provided by Serco or other type companies (Drs, Dentists, PTIs, Admin, Air Traffic, Suppliers, etc...).
5. Use civilian licences for aircrew and engineers. Type ratings and quals can be added via Service trg.
6. Axe DE&S to an absolute minima - I don't see an equivalent for BritishAirways when they buy a new fleet, or for the Ambulance Service when they buy new Ambulances, or security companies like G4S when they buy security vans, uniform, stab vests and helmets. So why do we need so many people to deliver so little these days?
7. Have 1 uniform for dress, 1 for Mess and 1 for work (No1s, No5s and either flying suits for all or Combat Dress that is flame retardent).
8. Gaff off MT white fleet and give a decent allowance for using one's own vehicle - so that we make money which will pay for the wear and tear.
9. Have an up or out policy after 10 years in each rank.
10. Return to work hard, play hard rules.
I guess some of the above will not be to everyone's taste, but there must be some good ideas in there amongst you all?
LJ
1. Flat rate allowances - no more receipts and caps, just a flat rate; win some, lose some.
2. Running capability requirements via the front-line, not just some rubber blotter jotter in the MOD who may not have touched an aircraft in years.
3. Carry more than 15 days of leave over or get recompensed for your daily rate of pay for every day you don't take.
4. Scrap all other branches apart from engineers, intel branch and aircrew - and then man to the right numbers. Rocks can join the Army, Coppers are MPGS and all others are provided by Serco or other type companies (Drs, Dentists, PTIs, Admin, Air Traffic, Suppliers, etc...).
5. Use civilian licences for aircrew and engineers. Type ratings and quals can be added via Service trg.
6. Axe DE&S to an absolute minima - I don't see an equivalent for BritishAirways when they buy a new fleet, or for the Ambulance Service when they buy new Ambulances, or security companies like G4S when they buy security vans, uniform, stab vests and helmets. So why do we need so many people to deliver so little these days?
7. Have 1 uniform for dress, 1 for Mess and 1 for work (No1s, No5s and either flying suits for all or Combat Dress that is flame retardent).
8. Gaff off MT white fleet and give a decent allowance for using one's own vehicle - so that we make money which will pay for the wear and tear.
9. Have an up or out policy after 10 years in each rank.
10. Return to work hard, play hard rules.
I guess some of the above will not be to everyone's taste, but there must be some good ideas in there amongst you all?
LJ
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Have an up or out policy after 10 years in each rank.
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We should be permitted to elect our leaders, perhaps in the manner of a soldiers soviet, if you like. Then we could all vote for Leon J to be Air Chief General The First Sea Lord. I can get the ballot papers filled in as soon as you want the boxes prefilled.
Any 3 of the 10 items you list would be enough to put a sparkle in every serviceman's eye once again and give morale the shot in the arm it so desperately needs.
You will probably get slated on here and told it is not possible to implement such systems. My counter argument to that is that it bloody well is. We aren't a very large organisation any more, it'd be fairly simple.
Leon for Supreme Leader.
Any 3 of the 10 items you list would be enough to put a sparkle in every serviceman's eye once again and give morale the shot in the arm it so desperately needs.
You will probably get slated on here and told it is not possible to implement such systems. My counter argument to that is that it bloody well is. We aren't a very large organisation any more, it'd be fairly simple.
Leon for Supreme Leader.
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And after the dry humour input above, on the allowances front many airlines pay by the hour.
For example, £1.25 per hour away logged from leaving a duty station or an aircraft steps. Time out logged, time rtb logged. Time in hours multiplied by £1.25 so that you get money for the exact time spent away. I'm fairly certain that would be very easy to administer and that for such a complicated computer program BAe could let us have a working model on a 286 processor in 5 years or so for a few hundred million.
This sort of thing should not be difficult.
For example, £1.25 per hour away logged from leaving a duty station or an aircraft steps. Time out logged, time rtb logged. Time in hours multiplied by £1.25 so that you get money for the exact time spent away. I'm fairly certain that would be very easy to administer and that for such a complicated computer program BAe could let us have a working model on a 286 processor in 5 years or so for a few hundred million.
This sort of thing should not be difficult.
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There's some obvious flaws here:
Take away the receipts, and your cap becomes a flat rate. But, if you spend less, then why should HMG give money away?
Good idea. Capped at a sensible level for carry over, say 28 days.
Arrse idea. Rocks are not soldiers, soldiers are not rocks. The Army REALLY has better things to do than guard airfields. Coppers do more than guard things. Do you REALLY want RMP SIB investigating you? Medics, chef s, ATC, stackers, all required on Ops.
Great idea, need to time-bar staff appropriately though, or they'll be off quicker than a Chief Tech to the NAAFI wagon.
I'd think that BA/Amb Svc/G4S doesn't invent its own publications for every aspect of an equipment, nor issue its own part numbers, nor operate them in such harsh environments though. Granted there's room for improvement, but the MOD is not a civvy company by any stretch.
Interesting that Mess comes before work, but how about a form of dress appropriate for every eventuality? Somewhat similar to what is currently provided?
You seem to be advocating making money out of the MOD. They're your employer, not your benefactor.
Jesus H Christ. So a 19 year SAC has a year to make Cpl? A 40 year old Fg Off has a year to make Flt Lt? TEN YEARS in a rank as a limit? Holy ****.
Spot on.
Then there's Scuttled:
What is this supposed to recompense for? You joined a MILITARY FORCE. You get fed, clothed and paid 24/7 when on ops, merely paid and clothed if not. Why is it relevant whether you are working on an aircraft in Brize, or in the field? You already get operational allowances.
Jesus, do you want an extra 50p/hr when you're wearing shiny boots, because you had to shine them in your own time?
Gents, the story has been crystal clear for a couple of years now. THERE IS NO MONEY, TCBr gave it all away.
1. Flat rate allowances - no more receipts and caps, just a flat rate; win some, lose some.
3. Carry more than 15 days of leave over or get recompensed for your daily rate of pay for every day you don't take.
4. Scrap all other branches apart from engineers, intel branch and aircrew - and then man to the right numbers. Rocks can join the Army, Coppers are MPGS and all others are provided by Serco or other type companies (Drs, Dentists, PTIs, Admin, Air Traffic, Suppliers, etc...).
5. Use civilian licences for aircrew and engineers. Type ratings and quals can be added via Service trg.
6. Axe DE&S to an absolute minima - I don't see an equivalent for BritishAirways when they buy a new fleet, or for the Ambulance Service when they buy new Ambulances, or security companies like G4S when they buy security vans, uniform, stab vests and helmets. So why do we need so many people to deliver so little these days?
7. Have 1 uniform for dress, 1 for Mess and 1 for work (No1s, No5s and either flying suits for all or Combat Dress that is flame retardent).
8. Gaff off MT white fleet and give a decent allowance for using one's own vehicle - so that we make money which will pay for the wear and tear.
9. Have an up or out policy after 10 years in each rank.
10. Return to work hard, play hard rules.
Then there's Scuttled:
For example, £1.25 per hour away logged from leaving a duty station or an aircraft steps. Time out logged, time rtb logged. Time in hours multiplied by £1.25 so that you get money for the exact time spent away. I'm fairly certain that would be very easy to administer and that for such a complicated computer program BAe could let us have a working model on a 286 processor in 5 years or so for a few hundred million.
This sort of thing should not be difficult.
This sort of thing should not be difficult.
Jesus, do you want an extra 50p/hr when you're wearing shiny boots, because you had to shine them in your own time?
Gents, the story has been crystal clear for a couple of years now. THERE IS NO MONEY, TCBr gave it all away.
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Roadster.... steady tiger!
Absolutely not talking about making money - nor is Leon. My (very minor) point was reference easy expense administration at no cost and less lost man hours waste on JPA (expense administration) etc. That's it. It would save government money and simplify personal administration. Not after a penny of government cash on the side whatsoever. I think you are a civilian, so apologies if I were not clear. This is to do with expenses incurred when away overnight on RAF business and responsible for feeding yourself, similar to any civilian job.
Similar to OP's post ref using your own vehicle for service business......it's not to earn, but to cover the actual cost of using your own vehicle. In the uk forces, mma doesn't cover fuel costs any longer, let alone tyres, insurance etc. That's just a fact.
Agree re leave buy back.
Agree re other trades being abolished (think Leon was having a giggle)
Umm don't understand your point on 10 years and out for one rank. I don't really agree, but don't understand your view...? For an airman 10 years to Cpl or out, an officer 10 years to sqn ldr from flt lt or out... Is that good or bad in your view? I know some great career flt lts and cpls. Progress for the sake of it is not, for me, the be all and end all for all our people.
Work hard, play hard...... That's a given. Anyone who doesn't miss that wasn't doing it properly when it was permitted/given a good ignoring.
Absolutely not talking about making money - nor is Leon. My (very minor) point was reference easy expense administration at no cost and less lost man hours waste on JPA (expense administration) etc. That's it. It would save government money and simplify personal administration. Not after a penny of government cash on the side whatsoever. I think you are a civilian, so apologies if I were not clear. This is to do with expenses incurred when away overnight on RAF business and responsible for feeding yourself, similar to any civilian job.
Similar to OP's post ref using your own vehicle for service business......it's not to earn, but to cover the actual cost of using your own vehicle. In the uk forces, mma doesn't cover fuel costs any longer, let alone tyres, insurance etc. That's just a fact.
Agree re leave buy back.
Agree re other trades being abolished (think Leon was having a giggle)
Umm don't understand your point on 10 years and out for one rank. I don't really agree, but don't understand your view...? For an airman 10 years to Cpl or out, an officer 10 years to sqn ldr from flt lt or out... Is that good or bad in your view? I know some great career flt lts and cpls. Progress for the sake of it is not, for me, the be all and end all for all our people.
Work hard, play hard...... That's a given. Anyone who doesn't miss that wasn't doing it properly when it was permitted/given a good ignoring.
Last edited by Scuttled; 12th Dec 2011 at 02:05.
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Scuttled,
Your initial post did come across as a way of making money. Some background on me: I'm a retired soldier, was posted to a couple of RAF stations, RAF Sleepy Hollow (Upavon), and RAF Mad Busy (BZZ). Also had a bit to do with RAF Roermond and the nearbyish RAF Weeze. In my time (90s), the RAF blokes were always out to get their 1771s in, even if we stayed out later than we need have to get the next rate up. I realise 1771 rates are a thing of the past, but I see shades of that here, both with the 1.25/hr and the MT scheme.
10 years to a rank is a BAD THING. It doesn't happen in the other two services, and shouldn't happen in the RAF. It leads to coasting fat knackers who are career blocking up-and-coming young blades. This will become more important as the RAF shrinks. The 37 year career needs to be limited to those who achieve in their first 22. Or 16, whichever. Experience is obviously to be valued, but if after 5 years as an MT Cpl you haven't grasped and demonstrated what's required to get to Sgt, it's time to go. If by then the RAF is so small that there are only 10 MT Cpls in the entire RAF, perhaps it's time to expand their skill set.
Your initial post did come across as a way of making money. Some background on me: I'm a retired soldier, was posted to a couple of RAF stations, RAF Sleepy Hollow (Upavon), and RAF Mad Busy (BZZ). Also had a bit to do with RAF Roermond and the nearbyish RAF Weeze. In my time (90s), the RAF blokes were always out to get their 1771s in, even if we stayed out later than we need have to get the next rate up. I realise 1771 rates are a thing of the past, but I see shades of that here, both with the 1.25/hr and the MT scheme.
10 years to a rank is a BAD THING. It doesn't happen in the other two services, and shouldn't happen in the RAF. It leads to coasting fat knackers who are career blocking up-and-coming young blades. This will become more important as the RAF shrinks. The 37 year career needs to be limited to those who achieve in their first 22. Or 16, whichever. Experience is obviously to be valued, but if after 5 years as an MT Cpl you haven't grasped and demonstrated what's required to get to Sgt, it's time to go. If by then the RAF is so small that there are only 10 MT Cpls in the entire RAF, perhaps it's time to expand their skill set.
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One to add to LJ's list - 14 days R&R should be 14 days R&R. The guys and girls of all 3 Services work extremely hard out in the sandpit with the current policy of R&R starting on the day you arrive at BZZ and ends the day you leave. To give one example. One arrived at BZZ, say for argument's sake on 8 Sep 11, at 15:30. For various reasons, we received our bags over 2 hrs later. it was 22:00 by the time I turned my key in my front door and having left BSN at 16:00 (BST) the previous day, scratch day 1 of R&R. My reporting time for my return flight on, let's say 21 Sep, was 02:00, having left home at 23:00 on day 13 of R&R, so, scratch day 14, leading to 12 out of the 14 days R&R. If Carlsberg Ran the MOD, as I'm aware this affects all 3 Services, R&R would start when the front door was opened and end when the front door was locked to return. Never mind, I get to do it all again tomorrow!
Now, a subject very close to LJ's heart - Uniform, and again across all 3 Services. I don't know about the majority but if I wear my No1s more than once a year, it's out of the ordinary. Do we need them? In my humble opinion no. Could they be pooled for those special occasions when the Soveriegn so desires, absolutely. Do we need No5s, of course we do, they certainly get much more use and abuse than the No1s will ever do, however, I realise that there are a number of individuals out there who rarely wear theirs! As for the plethora of working dress across the Military, aboslutuely no need whatsoever, how much would the MOD save if we all went MTP, kept our headress and our Service Stable Belts to distinguish the Services, if the rather large badge stating Royal Air Force or Royal Navy and the TRF wasn't a big enough clue! Thereby getting rid of blue, shirts, white shirts, brown shirts, long sleeve, short sleeve, 15 different Mks of Jersey various colours of trouser etc etc etc ad infinitum! Trust me, wearing MTP day in, day out, for the last 9 months has been extremely comfortable in all weathers!
Now, a subject very close to LJ's heart - Uniform, and again across all 3 Services. I don't know about the majority but if I wear my No1s more than once a year, it's out of the ordinary. Do we need them? In my humble opinion no. Could they be pooled for those special occasions when the Soveriegn so desires, absolutely. Do we need No5s, of course we do, they certainly get much more use and abuse than the No1s will ever do, however, I realise that there are a number of individuals out there who rarely wear theirs! As for the plethora of working dress across the Military, aboslutuely no need whatsoever, how much would the MOD save if we all went MTP, kept our headress and our Service Stable Belts to distinguish the Services, if the rather large badge stating Royal Air Force or Royal Navy and the TRF wasn't a big enough clue! Thereby getting rid of blue, shirts, white shirts, brown shirts, long sleeve, short sleeve, 15 different Mks of Jersey various colours of trouser etc etc etc ad infinitum! Trust me, wearing MTP day in, day out, for the last 9 months has been extremely comfortable in all weathers!
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... Willard, I don't think either of you are currently serving My apologies if you are
Just about.
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If we're going to bin all the other Air Combat Service Support trades and branches why retain the engineers? After all the only deploy to the same places that the other trades go to so there is no military reason that they too can't be contractors (are they at any greater risk than the contract chefs in Bastion/KAF?).
While we're at it. Do we really need our AT/AR crews to be regular service personnel. Don't they do the air equivalent if the RFA's maritime role? So let's bin them too. If we do that, then the policy could be extended to the non-Fast Jet ISTAR lot too.
So we'd be left with was a Royal Air Force comprising Fast Jet Pilots, the odd Tornado WSO, and Support Helicopter aircrew.
While we're at it. Do we really need our AT/AR crews to be regular service personnel. Don't they do the air equivalent if the RFA's maritime role? So let's bin them too. If we do that, then the policy could be extended to the non-Fast Jet ISTAR lot too.
So we'd be left with was a Royal Air Force comprising Fast Jet Pilots, the odd Tornado WSO, and Support Helicopter aircrew.
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If we're going to bin all the other Air Combat Service Support trades and branches why retain the engineers? After all the only deploy to the same places that the other trades go to so there is no military reason that they too can't be contractors (are they at any greater risk than the contract chefs in Bastion/KAF?).
While we're at it. Do we really need our AT/AR crews to be regular service personnel. Don't they do the air equivalent if the RFA's maritime role? So let's bin them too. If we do that, then the policy could be extended to the non-Fast Jet ISTAR lot too.
So we'd be left with was a Royal Air Force comprising Fast Jet Pilots, the odd Tornado WSO, and Support Helicopter aircrew
While we're at it. Do we really need our AT/AR crews to be regular service personnel. Don't they do the air equivalent if the RFA's maritime role? So let's bin them too. If we do that, then the policy could be extended to the non-Fast Jet ISTAR lot too.
So we'd be left with was a Royal Air Force comprising Fast Jet Pilots, the odd Tornado WSO, and Support Helicopter aircrew
We could of course take the nest logical step and give the army SH too?
An RAF of FJ and AT? Imagine that crazy idea!!
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Or of course you could give the tiny amount of air assets that the Army have to the Airforce which would leave us with an Army which just did soldiering and an Airforce that just did flying, imagine that crazy idea 
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Yep, you could do that. But remember, this thread was started by members of the RAF, telling us why the RAF isn't working. If that's the case, why would we want to give you more assets, particularly those that really are working very well?
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If Carlsberg ran Air Forces
The Tuna in the packed lunches would be replaced with Pickled Herring on Danish Rye bread in a Smørrebrød.
Beer would be bloody expensive and so would Spirits.
And the HomeGuard would look like this
And not like this
The Tuna in the packed lunches would be replaced with Pickled Herring on Danish Rye bread in a Smørrebrød.
Beer would be bloody expensive and so would Spirits.
And the HomeGuard would look like this
And not like this
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Do we really need our AT/AR crews to be regular service personnel.
And as for
9. Have an up or out policy after 10 years in each rank.