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BBC Coverage of Remembrance in Whitehall?

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BBC Coverage of Remembrance in Whitehall?

Old 13th Nov 2011, 23:13
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Bit of thread drift - we sang "Oh God our Help in Ages Past" in a stiff South Easterly round the war memorial in a Cornish country churchyard after the 2 minutes silence this morning. A wry smile went round the gathering as we came to the line "our shelter from the stormy blast".

We could have done with it!

Very little pomp - a wavery last post from two girls in the local silver band - only one rep in uniform from nearby Culdrose - but in its own way as moving as the events in Whitehall.

And no Dimbleby!
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 03:16
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Due to being stuck in front of BFBS at 15:30 watching the uninterrupted Sky News coverage of the Whitehall Service, Mrs BP did her bit and went to the local War Memorial in the Village, arriving at 10:35. At 10:45, the Vicar announced that everyone would head back to the church for a Service starting at 11:00. Mrs BP naturally asked about the 2 Minute Silence to be told "we did that at 10:30"

Needless to say, she was not impressed!
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 06:09
  #43 (permalink)  
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and I'm struggling to understand why you didn't hit Record on your way out to said local ceremony, like the rest of us!
I don't have a recording device. I try to avoid the idiot box
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 06:57
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While Dimbleby on Question Time often raises my hackles (sic) too, I think some of the nitpickers on this thread clearly have no concept of the pressures of live commentary and otherwise need to get a life.
We found the BBC programme very moving and have little confidence that any of the commercial broadcasters would have done it better.
No amount of homework will give a reporter the sort of encyclopaedic knowledge of the multifarious personalities and units (many now sadly extinct) that some here seem to expect.
Whatever our detailed knowledge of the part of the services we were part of, how many of us could identify facets of the others in the few seconds a TV camera allows?
The broadcaster has to cater for average uninformed viewers (the majority) as well as the vociferous specialists waiting to pounce on any slip up. In the future, however, the red button may be used more often to provide a commentary-free version.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 07:36
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scotbill, you have a point except that DD is a first-rate highly professional broadcaster who should be backed by an equally first rate team. The personalities and units were not a random seletion of characters popping up here and there but a carefully organised parade. Long before and unit was in camera shot someone should have been doing a tally, looking for the photogenic, briefing DD etc.

In those famous words from a 1939 action - Anticipation.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 07:48
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In the past, DD has been accompanied by a knowledgeable military historian who chipped in with corrections or additional detail. Where was he this year? Were his interruptions too disruptive for the Beeb's liking? I say bring him (or someone similar) back.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 08:06
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Scotbill

That's saying that mediocrity is acceptable, although I agree with PN re needs to be backed up by a team feeding the correct information on who is coming into the shot. PPPP = PPP

"have no concept of the pressures of live commentary". I think shouting orders out from memory on a public parade ground at a graduation or other, very public parade in the correct sequence in front of the general public and higher ranks would be more pressure than live commentary where you have back up staff and notes.

Not sure what the UK marches and broadcasts are like but the whole sequence is known in advance here and published. Can't be too hard to do a bit of background research.

Just my HO.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 08:50
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That's saying that mediocrity is acceptable, although I agree with PN re needs to be backed up by a team feeding the correct information on who is coming into the shot.
If you think BBC programmes are mediocre, it would be interesting to have your assessment of Australian output.

For me one of the stars of the Edinburgh Tattoo in recent years was Drum Major Brian Sutherland who had the responsibility for marshalling 250 assorted pipers and drummers on the sloping esplanade of Edinburgh Castle.
However, there is no comparison between an officer shouting orders with which he has been familiar throughout his career and a general reporter trying to deal with such a complex event as this when he cannot anticipate what cutaway shots his director may arbitrarily select from the many cameras at his disposal. Bear in mind the presenter has a continuous stream of chat coming into his earpiece while trying to invest the event with the solemnity it requires.
Whatever our irritation with Dimbleby on QT, his voice - like his father's - does have the essential gravitas. Although armchair critics assume TV presenting would be well within their compass, the truth is that the much-criticised salaries demonstrate that the skill is relatively rare.
Yes it would be good to have a specialist adviser - but how many have the necessary knowledge of all the other services as well as a professional broadcasting technique?
My point remains: for those unable to be present at a live ceremony, the BBC programme was a moving and ultimately uplifting recognition of sacrifice. A pity to let irritation with those slips which are inevitable in live broadcasting spoil the emotion.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:00
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"If you think BBC programmes are mediocre, it would be interesting to have your assessment of Australian output."

Australian TV can be worse.

However, I did watch the wedding and I was not that impressed, especially oe of the commentators who is a pompous axx. I think he is a Royal reporter.

Edit
The person I was talking about was James Whittaker, Royal Editor for The Mirror.

Not too sure what you think of him but I wasn't impressed.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:10
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Scotbill

Whilst applauding your desire for a balanced view, may I refer you to the opening words of my post:

The advertising slogan "Should have gone to S***savers!" comes very much to mind, and certainly could explain several of the Dimbleballs TH accurately quotes, particularly 1, 2, 6, and 7 (and perhaps 3 as well).

Whilst not wishing to "nit pick", there's a huge difference between displaying knowledge and expecting the high-priced help to read a script correctly on such an important occasion.

Jack
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:22
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In a live programme your notes can only be guidance. Try leafing through a sheaf of notes when something unexpected comes up.
I had tried to make the point that many shots require spontaneous comment. So it is not just a question of reading a script - which many a news broadcaster has fouled up.
Don't recall the detail of the wedding but Whittaker is not a BBC presenter.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:22
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scotbill:
the BBC programme was a moving and ultimately uplifting recognition of sacrifice.
No, Scotbill, it was the Remembrance Ceremony at Whitehall that was a moving and uplifting recognition of sacrifice. It is the BBC coverage of it that is in question, not the ceremony itself. What is it about organisations whose title commences with the word "British"? Lofty contempt for their competitors, a smug self satisfaction with their own performance, and an arrogant dismissal of any questioning of their standards, all seem to unite such bodies. The Beeb is no longer content to respectfully commentate on our great National fixtures, but instead wants to become a part of them, be it at Wimbledon or Whitehall. The notion that only a Dimbleby can preside over such coverage, for want in others of "Gravitas", is an indication of the absurd self delusion at work here. When we stood united against a common foe the BBC spoke for the nation with voices such as Dimbleby senior who were rightly and universally respected. Now that the BBC sees bankers, the capitalist system and the Tories as the enemies and speaks on behalf of "hard working families" no such unity or authority remains nor respect earned. It is just another broadcaster, and one with a political agenda at that. Being obliged to pay for it, on pain of a criminal charge if I do not, leaves me less than enamoured of its insidiously creeping takeover of our national psyche.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:35
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Scotbill
"In a live programme your notes can only be guidance. Try leafing through a sheaf of notes when something unexpected comes up.
I had tried to make the point that many shots require spontaneous comment. So it is not just a question of reading a script - which many a news broadcaster has fouled up."

Well, that is what sorts the amateurs from the professionals. As I said before, PPPP = PPP so if a presenter hasn't done the work beforehand, of course he is going to stuff it up. A professional should take it in his stride with maybe a small pause. If you don't know what you are talking about, then someone else should be doing it.

What's the difference between "something unexpected comes up" for a presenter and "something unexpected comes up" during the teaching of a lesson, be it theory, weapons, drill, navigation, tactics or whatever, it's not part of the script (lesson plan) but you have to think on your feet and carry on.
(I would guess that a fair few on here would have instructed in some sort of military subject during their career since a fair few have said they were instructors and I would say that not all have gone to plan).

Valid point re Whittaker not being BBC, although that wasn't much better as per some of the reviews afterwards.
.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 09:52
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OK guys - you win - I am out of here.

I've done my share of BBC criticism in my time but it remains superior to most of the competition.
Some of you betray the same alarming lack of understanding of what is involved in broadcasting that we as pilots complain of when the general public comment on our own specialised world.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 10:18
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Didn't bother me at all really. What's important to me is, that in a world where 'not giving a toss' is quickly becoming the norm, the BBC devoted a huge chunk of coverage to the topic. I don't class Dimble's performance as being in the 'don't give a toss' category. Remember (no pun), PPRuNe has a very specialised font of knowledge which it can bring to bear in criticising something. I'm surprised his spoken grammar hasn't been critted yet.

CG
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 10:45
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I'd love to comment but sadly getting any coverage of events is impossible "over here" and the BBC, bless them, have decided that you can only watch the iPlayer coverage from the UK. One in the eye for the commonwealth members who put their lives on the line or ex-pats who happen to be somewhere the BBC doesn't serve. Come on - why on earth does the Cenotaph ceremony have to be land-locked? Surely ALL of us can partake?
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 13:08
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I sort of swithched off last night watching the highlights after DD(no relation) refered to the "Massed Bands of the Household Division", tell that to the Marines. (And RAF)

But I did have a little chuckle, and please forgive me for this, DD(nr) descibed the President of the Merchant Navy Association as having an Uncle who was sunk and her Father as "missing for two years". As the son of a merchant seaman I can identify with that. But that's the point about DD(nr) he didn't give dates or a reason, so it sounded funny and it shouldn't.

One final thought. When will they show the faces of the Naval Guard during O God Our Help in Ages Past? You see they are all singing, as HMQ has made it known that she likes her sailors to sing. It takes three weeks to learn it off by heart, but we do.
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Old 14th Nov 2011, 21:37
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Originally Posted by 500N View Post
"something unexpected comes up" during the teaching of a lesson, be it theory, weapons, drill, navigation, tactics or whatever, it's not part of the script (lesson plan) but you have to think on your feet and carry on.
(I would guess that a fair few on here would have instructed in some sort of military subject during their career since a fair few have said they were instructors and I would say that not all have gone to plan).
Sort of thread drift, did a course at Tidworth. It was run by an ex-Army WO, REME at a guess, and a completely disparate group of studes. I think the 6 of us had about 150 years of service between us. During the lesson yarns and stories abounded. But at the end of the lecture we discovered we had covered the whole of thee topic for that lecture and finished on time. We didn't even notice how the WO steered it. Class.
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Old 15th Nov 2011, 09:24
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4. Saying the RAF Regt is "the military part of the RAF." (stand by for incomers)
Say what you like about the rest of it, but in terms of delivering an accurate and concise commentary, I thought his narrative was at times, flawless.
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Old 15th Nov 2011, 11:19
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And on a poignant note, something that shows what Remembrance is all about by the spadeful........

A little Belgian boy doing his tribute....


Little Belgian boy saluting Canadian Troops. [VIDEO]

Nice to see they returned the compliment to him.
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