Feeling valued in the RAF / Army / Navy
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Feeling valued in the RAF / Army / Navy
Submitted my PVR a few months ago (after 21.5 years in) and interested if anyone in the same boat was asked by their Boss or Manning why they wanted to go? My experience was that no one asked me why I am leaving or tried to talk me out of it, which is surprising I think. Would that happen in a similar sized civilian company? There is a little JPA survey after you press the button though.
Is it true that 'the management' do not really care about us, are we are just numbers on a spread sheet that they have to juggle about and when we PVR they find it hard to fill in all the boxes.
Is it true that 'the management' do not really care about us, are we are just numbers on a spread sheet that they have to juggle about and when we PVR they find it hard to fill in all the boxes.
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Yes, PVR or time served irrespective of how important we think we may be none of us is irreplaceable, no one cares if we turn left or right the last time you leave the station and within a couple of days no one will notice we have gone.
This is not exclusive to the military either as people come and go in all walks of life and people simply adjust.
This is not exclusive to the military either as people come and go in all walks of life and people simply adjust.
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After nearly 37 years service I was a tad disappointed, albeit I was retiring on time. I should say, having served twice in the US where retirement is a big event, maybe my expectations were unrealistic.
The resettlement package was excellent and gave me exactly what I asked for. A big tick for all involved.
The clearing process was impersonal and the final "That's it Sir, if I could have your ID card" was quite stark.
Shame I didn't get a departure interview, so no chance to air my views. The expected call for a chat during my terminal leave just never came. It would have been nice if my Commander had bothered to attend my Dining Out Night - and that of the other long serving colleague on the same night. At least the late Commander of Air Command sent me a letter. I was expecting the new-fangled valedictory E Mail so the letter came as a nice surprise.
The box ticking elements were mostly, efficient but the personal touch was sadly missing. Overall, I'd hoped for more but I suppose I got what I expected.
The resettlement package was excellent and gave me exactly what I asked for. A big tick for all involved.
The clearing process was impersonal and the final "That's it Sir, if I could have your ID card" was quite stark.
Shame I didn't get a departure interview, so no chance to air my views. The expected call for a chat during my terminal leave just never came. It would have been nice if my Commander had bothered to attend my Dining Out Night - and that of the other long serving colleague on the same night. At least the late Commander of Air Command sent me a letter. I was expecting the new-fangled valedictory E Mail so the letter came as a nice surprise.
The box ticking elements were mostly, efficient but the personal touch was sadly missing. Overall, I'd hoped for more but I suppose I got what I expected.
Last edited by Geehovah; 30th Sep 2011 at 07:33.
When I suggested in MB a couple of years ago that I was planning to leave, the reaction was 'Oh, that's nice, can we help?' Unfortuantely, no one tried to talk me out of it...but I didn't leave, as it happens.
We PPruners have probably smirked and commented sarcastically at US promotion/CoC/retirement events. As I mentioned in another post, about a 1/3 of my career has been spent working with or working for US personnel - DOD and State department - including the latter very recently. They do make their people feel valued and they do ensure that families are made the centre of attention at these sometimes cheesy ceremonies. A couple of months ago I attended the formal farewell event of a USN Cdr. He was piped 'aboard', presented a folded US flag (having been passed along a line of his troops in a choreographed movement), farewelled by his boss, Padre said prayers and then piped 'ashore'. It was very moving even if his crew did look like extras from a Village People video (cue 'In the Navy...').
A couple of years ago I attended the 'pinning up' ceremony of a USAF Lt Col based in the UK. His daughter sang both National Anthems and a UK 2* presented and affixed his silver eagles. The event was tasteful, appropriate and memorable, especially for his family.
In my 26 years in uniform I have only received one letter of congratulation on promotion (from a fellow officer who was parenting me, congratulating me along the lines of 'I thought I'd write to you, because no other bu&&er will!) and all medals (albeit round ones) have been picked up from Gen Office or received in the post. Perhaps formed units/Sqns make a big thing of this, but for a majority of the RAF (I suspect) there is no formal recognition of these suignificant events in one's career (except for wearing the rank, taking the pay, bigger ulcers...). Even Dining Ins are increasingly becoming a brief affairs and the opportunity for Officers to have a word about their careers is generally limited to the senior departing guest ('Don't want to incur overtime - the contractors have to set up for breakfast...').
Junior ranks do not even have that opportunity; at least the WOs and SNCOs still have their Top Table lunches...I hope!
We PPruners have probably smirked and commented sarcastically at US promotion/CoC/retirement events. As I mentioned in another post, about a 1/3 of my career has been spent working with or working for US personnel - DOD and State department - including the latter very recently. They do make their people feel valued and they do ensure that families are made the centre of attention at these sometimes cheesy ceremonies. A couple of months ago I attended the formal farewell event of a USN Cdr. He was piped 'aboard', presented a folded US flag (having been passed along a line of his troops in a choreographed movement), farewelled by his boss, Padre said prayers and then piped 'ashore'. It was very moving even if his crew did look like extras from a Village People video (cue 'In the Navy...').
A couple of years ago I attended the 'pinning up' ceremony of a USAF Lt Col based in the UK. His daughter sang both National Anthems and a UK 2* presented and affixed his silver eagles. The event was tasteful, appropriate and memorable, especially for his family.
In my 26 years in uniform I have only received one letter of congratulation on promotion (from a fellow officer who was parenting me, congratulating me along the lines of 'I thought I'd write to you, because no other bu&&er will!) and all medals (albeit round ones) have been picked up from Gen Office or received in the post. Perhaps formed units/Sqns make a big thing of this, but for a majority of the RAF (I suspect) there is no formal recognition of these suignificant events in one's career (except for wearing the rank, taking the pay, bigger ulcers...). Even Dining Ins are increasingly becoming a brief affairs and the opportunity for Officers to have a word about their careers is generally limited to the senior departing guest ('Don't want to incur overtime - the contractors have to set up for breakfast...').
Junior ranks do not even have that opportunity; at least the WOs and SNCOs still have their Top Table lunches...I hope!
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It might not be right, but when it all comes down to it, you ARE just a number. You volunteered, got paid reasonably well and (if you were like me) had a great time in the mob. You are choosing to leave early, that is your right. If you think anything otherwise, then you are dreaming. As it happens, I got a nice personal letter from the AOC, a man I have never met. I used it in my CV, so thanks very much! Otherwise I got EXACTLY what I expected after 24 years, a good financial package and ....................... memories. 
Gehovah
You were lucky, after my RAF service I did not get a Dining Out Night nor even an interview with Squadron or Station Commander. I just slipped under the radar I suppose. However, a couple of months ago while on holiday back in the UK, I attended one of my old Squadrons (46) annual reunion, absolutely wonderful weekend & great to see so many old faces again.
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When I was attending an overseas Staff College many moons ago I only found out I had been promoted to major when I picked up an old copy of the Daily Telegraph with the promotions lists in it.
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I'm not really allowed to agree with SFFP (because I'm not welcome here)...but what he said +1
I left a company in 2007 which has 250 000 employees and in which I was doing exceptionally well. They couldn't give a toss.
Many moons ago a young man I read an article in Penthouse (my next door neighbour was a magazine distributor, so I had an endless supply of glossy totty). It has stayed with me to this day...we are all cogs in wheels. You may be a big cog; you may be a small cog, but you can always be replaced and as long as the wheel keeps turning, the wheel won't give a damn.
Maybe an odd place to find philosophy, but everything I've witnessed in my tender 54 years would back it up.
PS people who feel the need to belong to a "thing" and have that "thing" cherish them are often a tad insecure.
Would that happen in a similar sized civilian company?
Many moons ago a young man I read an article in Penthouse (my next door neighbour was a magazine distributor, so I had an endless supply of glossy totty). It has stayed with me to this day...we are all cogs in wheels. You may be a big cog; you may be a small cog, but you can always be replaced and as long as the wheel keeps turning, the wheel won't give a damn.
Maybe an odd place to find philosophy, but everything I've witnessed in my tender 54 years would back it up.
PS people who feel the need to belong to a "thing" and have that "thing" cherish them are often a tad insecure.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I must admit to keeping some letters, one congratulating me on accelerated promotion and another on my result on the ISS course. Both by very senior officers and both unexpected.
My farewell letter OTOH was largely drafted by me as my boss said he would have to draft it for the AOC. When the Air Force was far larger and with more Groups etc the AOC knew who you were.
Now, pro rata, the number of officers serving under an AOC is probably fewer but I bet the AOCs don't know half of them.
At least when we had a meeting at Strike Chris Moran made time to come and visit and meet us all. We only found out later that he had just signed off our bonus recommendations - top bloke - RIP.
My farewell letter OTOH was largely drafted by me as my boss said he would have to draft it for the AOC. When the Air Force was far larger and with more Groups etc the AOC knew who you were.
Now, pro rata, the number of officers serving under an AOC is probably fewer but I bet the AOCs don't know half of them.
At least when we had a meeting at Strike Chris Moran made time to come and visit and meet us all. We only found out later that he had just signed off our bonus recommendations - top bloke - RIP.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yes, we all know/knew that we are/were cogs in a large and often unforgiving machine, but it is important to consider the human element. Let's call it morale, espirit des corps, the organic structure. This is one of the reasons that many of us have stayed so long in the Services or have continued to maintain long friendships and actually look forward to attending reunions. Apart from university alumnii, there are few organisations that engender such loyalty amongst its staff. Anyone fancy going to a Tesco reunion?
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Along the same lines as Clockwork Mouse's post. A few years ago I was lucky enough to get a state award but owing to the fact that I had been posted in the run up to Christmas the 2 Stn Cdr's couldn't decide who's job it was to tell about it. I was woken on the day the list came out over New Year to a text from a mate congratulating me on the MBE I'd received. Somewhat stunned, I phoned my old boss whose mobile number I still had to formally confirm it and then I ran out to grab a copy of the Telegraph. Said staishes were most apologetic when I got back to work.
Although when I left the RAF fairly recently, there was alot of interest from my management as to why I was leaving. PSF however told me not to let the door hit my a*** as I left the station.
Although when I left the RAF fairly recently, there was alot of interest from my management as to why I was leaving. PSF however told me not to let the door hit my a*** as I left the station.
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"Irreplaceable ..."
When told that one of his staff was irreplaceable, a US Army Colonel remarked that if you stuck your finger into an open jar of syrup, what happened to the resultant hole would show you what "irreplaceable" meant.
Very succinct and to the point ... pass the toast, please.
Very succinct and to the point ... pass the toast, please.
I once taught for a total of seven weeks at a major public school (covering for staff sickness).
At the end of my time they gave me a little dinner in the staff dining room, The Master (head) made a little farewell speech thanking me for stepping in at short notice, and they gave me a couple of very nice little going away presents (one of which still hangs on my wall). All after 7 weeks!
In stark contrast to the shameful way in which many on here have been treated on leaving the service.
At the end of my time they gave me a little dinner in the staff dining room, The Master (head) made a little farewell speech thanking me for stepping in at short notice, and they gave me a couple of very nice little going away presents (one of which still hangs on my wall). All after 7 weeks!
In stark contrast to the shameful way in which many on here have been treated on leaving the service.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jig, IIRC, this was said of Sir Wallace Kyle too. He thought that anyone taking more than 7 days leave was being disloyal (for the youngesters that meant Saturday to Friday).
Quite senior officers, wg cdrs, were then heard to mention the same thing in relation to a bucket of water. At least with honey you got to keep some.
Quite senior officers, wg cdrs, were then heard to mention the same thing in relation to a bucket of water. At least with honey you got to keep some.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I reading a book at the moment called Frigate November. Hugely entertaining and outrageous in respect to authority in the first few chapters but developing into a first rate thesis on leadership and loyalty to one's troops. Some SOs could do well to read it and ensure that loyalty is a true two-way street.
The old adage about cogs and wheels may have been true years ago, but these days it is increasingly common to hear the huge graunching sound as the wheels grind to a halt, tearing the machine apart; only for new wheels to be reinvented instead of replacing the cog. Much of MoD is now manned by professional wheel-reinventors who don't know what a cog is.
It is what caused much of the £38Bn deficit, leading to yet another tranche of redundancies announced today.
It is what caused much of the £38Bn deficit, leading to yet another tranche of redundancies announced today.
As a serving sneck, I must say that we still try to ensure we say appropriate farewells in our Mess be it on posting or retirement. It is one of the things (On a diminishing list sadly), that makes me feel a bit different to those employed in the civilian world. I take the point about cogs and wheels, but that was always the way wasn't it? No one person is more important than the organisation and one could argue that is the way it should be, but we should try to keep up our traditions alive where at all possible. As a former drafter (Career Manager in new money) I was deeply saddened by the removal of the "Blue Letter" when promotion came around. The abundance of information and ways to access same, allied to very little monetary benefit to promotion, has meant it is just not as special as it once was, but it could be with a little effort. The willingness to expend that effort is the key issue I feel. Just my tuppenceworth of course.