Flying phobias in aircrew
Anyone else relate to this or am I in a minority of one?
Re helicopters, I was once sitting on the ledge of a Whirlwind flying over the Hong Kong New Territories enjoying the view of the hills and beaches (I was secured by a strop). Then as we neared Kai Tak and started flying over skyscrapers there was suddenly an idea of height. I rapidly slid back inside the aircraft and stayed well away from the edge till we landed. Weird.
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Open cockpit aeros
One experience I can share here is the feeling of a just a "lack of security" when looping an ac with an open cockpit. I have only ever flown aeros in two open cockpit types; the good old T.21 glider and the DH 82A Tiger Moth. Going over the top of a loop was never quite the same as doing the exact same manoevre in anything else that I flew that had a canopy and I always had a desire to check my harness very carefully when doing my Hasel checks
.
The psycological difference of not having 4 or 5 mm of plexiglass was very real. It was never enough to stop me aerobatting but the feeling was very much there.
MB
.The psycological difference of not having 4 or 5 mm of plexiglass was very real. It was never enough to stop me aerobatting but the feeling was very much there.
MB
Anyone else relate to this or am I in a minority of one?
I do recall that some FAA aircrew occasionally expressed the view that they did not actually derive a huge amount of enjoyment from landing heavy jet aircraft on a pitching rolling deck on wet, dark and stormy nights.
Jack
I do recall that some FAA aircrew occasionally expressed the view that they did not actually derive a huge amount of enjoyment from landing heavy jet aircraft on a pitching rolling deck on wet, dark and stormy nights.
Jack
I do recall that some FAA aircrew occasionally expressed the view that they did not actually derive a huge amount of enjoyment from landing heavy jet aircraft on a pitching rolling deck on wet, dark and stormy nights.
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'The psycological difference of not having 4 or 5 mm of plexiglass was very real. It was never enough to stop me aerobatting but the feeling was very much there'.
In the pre huggy-fluffy days, vertical metal ladders on the outside of buildings and towers were fitted with metal hoops to give the same feeling of security. Not allowed to climb them nowadays of course without multiple ropes and safety nets.
I seem to remember, as a space cadet, before a trip in a Sioux at Ternhill many moons ago, that the yellow line painted around the bubble canopy was there to prevent similar feelings of insecurity.
In the pre huggy-fluffy days, vertical metal ladders on the outside of buildings and towers were fitted with metal hoops to give the same feeling of security. Not allowed to climb them nowadays of course without multiple ropes and safety nets.
I seem to remember, as a space cadet, before a trip in a Sioux at Ternhill many moons ago, that the yellow line painted around the bubble canopy was there to prevent similar feelings of insecurity.
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I seem to remember, as a space cadet, before a trip in a Sioux at Ternhill many moons ago, that the yellow line painted around the bubble canopy was there to prevent similar feelings of insecurity.
In my green phase I was aware of a lot of people who much preferred jumping at night - they couldn't see the ground when they were in the door. Most people hated jumping from a balloon.
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Again like many I have fear of 'Open' heights. The first time I flew in a Heli with the door open I was overwhelmed but I knew I had a job to do so had to suck it up.
On fixed wing (even after 20 years) I still get a slight tingle everytime we cross the threshold, I think it's that slight pause as the rate of decent slows right down just before the mains touch,
Low level over a flat calm sea is also a wee bit disconcerting, more of a concern than a fear.
BW
On fixed wing (even after 20 years) I still get a slight tingle everytime we cross the threshold, I think it's that slight pause as the rate of decent slows right down just before the mains touch,
Low level over a flat calm sea is also a wee bit disconcerting, more of a concern than a fear.
BW
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I used to experience mild feelings of fear and trepidation doing self-illuminated night ground attack in the F4. Matters were compounded by this performance being carried out in 5-ship line astern formations. After the first pass, each a/c recovered back into a semblance of the order in which they had delivered (or not). Invariably that was the last time the a/c were in correct order.
On a happier note, whereas the Wingco didn't get his AFC, he did get an MBE. To the tune of "We're pressing on regardless".
On a happier note, whereas the Wingco didn't get his AFC, he did get an MBE. To the tune of "We're pressing on regardless".
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Charliegolf, there were two differences. One was that he was not the PIC and the other, as I was careful to point out, was that it was not that long after the war and there were still DFC holders etc on the sqns.
PS
In the early 80s we also had a pilot that took himself off flying as he believed he was ill. The Docs were adamant that he was not and suggested it was a phobia.
He paid for a private specialist who eventually determined that the man was indeed ill. After a period of recuperation he returned to full flying duties. No suggestion of LMF by us then.
PS
In the early 80s we also had a pilot that took himself off flying as he believed he was ill. The Docs were adamant that he was not and suggested it was a phobia.
He paid for a private specialist who eventually determined that the man was indeed ill. After a period of recuperation he returned to full flying duties. No suggestion of LMF by us then.
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TTN, I think that is not quite the same. What you possibly experienced was the onset of vertigo - and the need to pee?
I had that once in the Varisty. The hatch to the bomb aimer's compartment was open and I was sat on the floor with my legs dangling in the void. The ground was 4000 feet below. The brain ignored the hard shell of the aircraft and told me I was sitting on the edge of a 4000 feet precipice. I needed a pee then!
There was also the documented case of the Jaguar pilot on a high transit to Akrotiri. He was over Italy or the Med at 30k odd with that strange indefined horizon below and blue sky above. He felt he was sitting on a knife edge. Again it was vertigo and not a true phobia.
I had that once in the Varisty. The hatch to the bomb aimer's compartment was open and I was sat on the floor with my legs dangling in the void. The ground was 4000 feet below. The brain ignored the hard shell of the aircraft and told me I was sitting on the edge of a 4000 feet precipice. I needed a pee then!
There was also the documented case of the Jaguar pilot on a high transit to Akrotiri. He was over Italy or the Med at 30k odd with that strange indefined horizon below and blue sky above. He felt he was sitting on a knife edge. Again it was vertigo and not a true phobia.
In my green phase I was aware of a lot of people who much preferred jumping at night - they couldn't see the ground when they were in the door. Most people hated jumping from a balloon.
I must admit I am frightened of flying in helicopters. As a CCF cadet I was meant to fly in a RN Hiller HTE2 at Old Sarum, but was talked into a Chipmunk trip by a persuasive F/Sgt pilot while waiting for the RN Commander to finish a lecture. I was airborne in the Chipmunk when shortly after take-off the Hiller lost a rotor blade over Old Sarum Castle. The pilot was killed. Many years later in an Argosy, I was joining the circuit at Khormaksar when a Belvedere exploded in front of us, due to an uncontained turbine blade entering the avpin tank. Hanging under a chopper while being winched from the sea during survival courses used to terrify my
Last edited by brakedwell; 7th Sep 2011 at 12:09.
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I'm not sure whether I'd elevate it to the realms of 'phobia', but I can certainly confess to getting severly twitched over the years by repeated attempts on my life... trouble is, the people responsible were supposed to be on the same side.
After two tours on the F-4 I got my dream posting - instructor at Chivenor. It was a fantasitc tour and looking back there was never one incident that stood out, but there were occasions where I erred on the wrong side of letting Bloggs sort out a problem of his own making. This inevitably led to a very hurried "I have control", a bad case of sixpence half-a-crown and a mental note to intervene earlier next time things went pear-shaped.
The worst ones were during the early air combat sorties where Bloggs would end up nose-high, inverted, out of SA, faced with rapidly diminishing knots and nose authority, with the other aircraft stationary in the canopy and getting bigger by the second. These are the ones that still wake me up sweating in the night.
Towards the end of the tour I was conscious of a bad case of "the twitch" and found myself intervening far too early when anything didn't look right. It made me a less effective instructor and didn't help the studes' confidence.
I'd completely forgotton about the problem until I was on an exchange tour and ended up in the back seat of the two-sticker, teaching combat to convexees. The twitch came back to such an extent that I was only happy flying the single seater and in formations containing blokes I trusted. Needless to say, I didn't mention it, but to this day, every time I get on an aircraft (pax only these days), I'm still convinced (wrongly, obviously) that the people at the pointy end will try to kill me.
In the light of what people are having to put up with in the sandpit, this might sound pathetic, but the accumulation of "Christ, that was close" events over the years added up to a feeling that after a great 19 years flying Auntie Betty's aeroplanes I'd pushed my luck far enough and it was time to try something else for a living.
After two tours on the F-4 I got my dream posting - instructor at Chivenor. It was a fantasitc tour and looking back there was never one incident that stood out, but there were occasions where I erred on the wrong side of letting Bloggs sort out a problem of his own making. This inevitably led to a very hurried "I have control", a bad case of sixpence half-a-crown and a mental note to intervene earlier next time things went pear-shaped.
The worst ones were during the early air combat sorties where Bloggs would end up nose-high, inverted, out of SA, faced with rapidly diminishing knots and nose authority, with the other aircraft stationary in the canopy and getting bigger by the second. These are the ones that still wake me up sweating in the night.
Towards the end of the tour I was conscious of a bad case of "the twitch" and found myself intervening far too early when anything didn't look right. It made me a less effective instructor and didn't help the studes' confidence.
I'd completely forgotton about the problem until I was on an exchange tour and ended up in the back seat of the two-sticker, teaching combat to convexees. The twitch came back to such an extent that I was only happy flying the single seater and in formations containing blokes I trusted. Needless to say, I didn't mention it, but to this day, every time I get on an aircraft (pax only these days), I'm still convinced (wrongly, obviously) that the people at the pointy end will try to kill me.
In the light of what people are having to put up with in the sandpit, this might sound pathetic, but the accumulation of "Christ, that was close" events over the years added up to a feeling that after a great 19 years flying Auntie Betty's aeroplanes I'd pushed my luck far enough and it was time to try something else for a living.
Last edited by Ali Qadoo; 7th Sep 2011 at 11:38. Reason: speling and fat fingers
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In my green phase I was aware of a lot of people who much preferred jumping at night - they couldn't see the ground when they were in the door.
..all of mine were nights jumps...in the door and eyes closed!
..all of mine were nights jumps...in the door and eyes closed!
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For 38 years I have flown upright and inverted in fixed wing, helicopters and gliders and never had an irrational moment. I have even thrown myself out of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane, yelling a happy native american warcry, without the slightest hesitation. Ask me to climb a ladder a few feet, however, and I turn into a gibbering wreck! I hate walking on narrow cliff paths and as for treading on that glass floor at the top of the refurbished Blackpool Tower - No Way!
The way the human mind works is sometimes mystifying.
Anyone else relate to this or am I in a minority of one?
The way the human mind works is sometimes mystifying.
Anyone else relate to this or am I in a minority of one?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think this is similar to climbing a ladder to the roof. The mast ladder was as if you were climbing in space whereas the ladder secured to the superstructure gave an illusion of safety.
You get the same illusion leaning over a balcony railing. You can also stand on the balcony, hands in pockets, no problem. Remove the railing ............
The issue is thus one of perceived insecurity which is probably the root cause of the phobias.
"I do recall that some FAA aircrew occasionally expressed the view that they did not actually derive a huge amount of enjoyment from landing heavy jet aircraft on a pitching rolling deck on wet, dark and stormy nights.
"
Bet you that if the Sea harrier was still in service then this wouldn't be an issue
(Paging WEBF to the thread, paging Mr WEBF...)
"Bet you that if the Sea harrier was still in service then this wouldn't be an issue
(Paging WEBF to the thread, paging Mr WEBF...)
Yip - I'm wih the team - completely happy upside down in a jet - but at the top of Gaudi's Cathedral in Barcelona going across the bridge thingys I was on my hands and knees!