RAF and RN SAR Sea Kings...
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RAF and RN SAR Sea Kings...
afternoon folks.
having vegged in front of the magic box watching re-runs of 'Highland Emergency' on Five i wondered if there was any real diference between the RAF Sea King HAR3/3A and the RN's Sea King HAR5?
are they both SAR choppers from the ground up, or are they, for example, ASW Sea Kings with a winch and a searchlight - is one more suited to the role/'better' than the other?
just interested, and, it must be said, have a slight man crush....
having vegged in front of the magic box watching re-runs of 'Highland Emergency' on Five i wondered if there was any real diference between the RAF Sea King HAR3/3A and the RN's Sea King HAR5?
are they both SAR choppers from the ground up, or are they, for example, ASW Sea Kings with a winch and a searchlight - is one more suited to the role/'better' than the other?
just interested, and, it must be said, have a slight man crush....
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The RN Sea Kings (HU5 btw, not HAR5) have shorter range than the 3/3A due to their having a different fuel system which fits around the hole in the floor through which the sonar was dipped. The 5 & 3 share the same AFCS (stab and basic autopilot) while the 3A is comparitively far more swept up, allowing it to 'fly itself' to a much greater degree. The 5 has a different radar to the 3/3A which in itself has similar capabilities, but the 3/3A benefit from the fact that the radar picture is processed and displayed on a 'TV' screen rather than an 'old school' screen. The 3/3A are all fitted with MSS turrets (providing IR and TV search capabilities) whereas AFAIK the 5 is yet to get this capability across the fleet. The 3/3A have far more comprehensive IFR nav kit as compared to the 5 which didn't need this in its original role. The layout of the cabin in the 3/3A is more optimised for SAR, so working with stretchers is easier than in the 5. Finally the 3/3A have far superior external lighting for night jobs.
That said, they all fly in a pretty similar fashion (3A pilots will disagree here), and they are all very effective, if aged, SAR cabs.
That said, they all fly in a pretty similar fashion (3A pilots will disagree here), and they are all very effective, if aged, SAR cabs.
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SAR cabs
Cokecan,
I think I'm right in saying that the MK3 and later 3A were designed from scratch as SAR variants of the S61 type. The MK5 was originally an ASW airframe that was "de-modded" by removal of the LAPADS, Sonar winch, spare seats, weapons points, kitchen sink; and had strengthened floor fitted. (Yes I know there is more to it than that, just keeping it simple!)
As to which is best, well as a mechanic I will defer to the aircrew for that answer, but from reading the "Rotorheads" forum I would say both are better than the POS that the S92 appears to be. (Not worked on it but read the threads and see what I mean).
Cheers now
I think I'm right in saying that the MK3 and later 3A were designed from scratch as SAR variants of the S61 type. The MK5 was originally an ASW airframe that was "de-modded" by removal of the LAPADS, Sonar winch, spare seats, weapons points, kitchen sink; and had strengthened floor fitted. (Yes I know there is more to it than that, just keeping it simple!)
As to which is best, well as a mechanic I will defer to the aircrew for that answer, but from reading the "Rotorheads" forum I would say both are better than the POS that the S92 appears to be. (Not worked on it but read the threads and see what I mean).
Cheers now
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Pretty sure that, under the floor, there is still a large round hole on the Mk3s where the sonar would have been dipped (if it had ever had one). Exciting stuff you never needed to know... 
large round hole on the Mk3s where the sonar would have been dipped
are they both SAR choppers from the ground up, or are they, for example, ASW Sea Kings with a winch and a searchlight - is one more suited to the role/'better' than the other?
Thread Starter
cheers gents - and particularly PPM - very grateful.
this may be a can-of-worms question, but now the SARH deal is dead, how long can they continue in service and are they likely to be replaced by Merlins of one flavour or another?
this may be a can-of-worms question, but now the SARH deal is dead, how long can they continue in service and are they likely to be replaced by Merlins of one flavour or another?
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It is the MoD's intention, as declared in the SDSR of Oct 2010, to withdraw all RAF and RN Sea Kings by mid 2016. It was the most obvious helicopter cost savings measure, with not buying anything new to replace the Junglie SK Mk4s being another significant one, and finally the reduction from 24 new Chinooks to 12 (plus 2 attrition replacements) being the final blow.
While a formal announcement, including detailed requirements, has yet to be given by HMG, they have already indicated as part of the current UK GAP SAR programme, that we can expect something in the Autumn as to a new longer term programme to replace the capability presently provided by MoD Sea Kings. Most commentators watching this would stunned if it were to be an MoD funded purchase, and no one who knows anything about costs verus the money that will probably be available, would expect any SAR Merlin variant (AWL101 SAR) to be affordable - nice as some geuniunely believe that would be.
Watch out for civilian focussed solutions similar to those proprosed for the SAR- H (RIP!) solution.
While a formal announcement, including detailed requirements, has yet to be given by HMG, they have already indicated as part of the current UK GAP SAR programme, that we can expect something in the Autumn as to a new longer term programme to replace the capability presently provided by MoD Sea Kings. Most commentators watching this would stunned if it were to be an MoD funded purchase, and no one who knows anything about costs verus the money that will probably be available, would expect any SAR Merlin variant (AWL101 SAR) to be affordable - nice as some geuniunely believe that would be.
Watch out for civilian focussed solutions similar to those proprosed for the SAR- H (RIP!) solution.
A topical news item:
A PILOT with Gannet has just become one of the Royal Navy's most experienced flyers. Lieutenant Commander Roger Stringer, 47, who lives in Mauchline with his wife, has just completed his 7000th flying hour at the controls of a Sea King Mark 5. The former commander of HMS Gannet at Prestwick reached the milestone while returning from an emergency call in the skies above Clyde Coastguard's offices in Greenock.
Originally Posted by Ayr Advertiser 31 Aug 2011
A PILOT with Gannet has just become one of the Royal Navy's most experienced flyers. Lieutenant Commander Roger Stringer, 47, who lives in Mauchline with his wife, has just completed his 7000th flying hour at the controls of a Sea King Mark 5. The former commander of HMS Gannet at Prestwick reached the milestone while returning from an emergency call in the skies above Clyde Coastguard's offices in Greenock.
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Yellow one is crewed by toffs that will tell you how good they are and the other is crewed by damn right good eggs that you can have a down to earth chat with 
Gentleman Aviator
Yellow one is crewed by toffs
down to earth chat with
Radar
but the 3/3A benefit from the fact that the radar picture is processed and displayed on a 'TV' screen rather than an 'old school' screen.
What was the rationale behind retaining the small scanner in the 3A? IIRC the RN had upgraded many years before and had better forward "visibility". Would it not have been better and cheaper to have all the same?
I don't want to start a willy-waiving constest, but why are Sea Kings flown by two pilots? They are after all painfully slow VFR machines. Plenty of far more demanding aircraft are flow single-pilot, so why two pilots in the Sea King?
From my personal experience during my 4 year stint as groundcrew on 202 Sqn in the RAF, I'm glad that they have 2 pilots, at least in the SAR role.
To give an example of why, one job I was along on as supernumerary crew had us hovering with the main rotor tips 2 metres away from a cliff face, 500 ft above a valley floor, with 300 ft of winch cable out. Not an ideal single pilot operation, I wouldn't of thought.
After 10 or 15 mins hovering like that I'm sure the guy in the right hand seat was more than grateful to relax and let someone else pole it for a while. Especially as he had only been declared ops ready a week or so beforehand.
To give an example of why, one job I was along on as supernumerary crew had us hovering with the main rotor tips 2 metres away from a cliff face, 500 ft above a valley floor, with 300 ft of winch cable out. Not an ideal single pilot operation, I wouldn't of thought.
After 10 or 15 mins hovering like that I'm sure the guy in the right hand seat was more than grateful to relax and let someone else pole it for a while. Especially as he had only been declared ops ready a week or so beforehand.
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I don't want to start a willy-waiving constest, but why are Sea Kings flown by two pilots? They are after all painfully slow VFR machines. Plenty of far more demanding aircraft are flow single-pilot, so why two pilots in the Sea King? 1st Sep 2011 06:44
T-S, go and shoot your other foot,ffs....You claim to be in the TA/was,but you seem to have zero nouse about SAR-OPS,whether they are civilian or military.Not only that they can be used in combat ops if necessary.
I`ll leave it to Tallsar/Crab/Navy to elaborate the finer points of all-weather SAR..In a nutshell,it`s crew co-operation at it`s best,and needs to be ,given all the possible scenarios that crews can be called upon,and that applies whether you are light blue,dark blue or coastguard...
I`ll leave it to Tallsar/Crab/Navy to elaborate the finer points of all-weather SAR..In a nutshell,it`s crew co-operation at it`s best,and needs to be ,given all the possible scenarios that crews can be called upon,and that applies whether you are light blue,dark blue or coastguard...