RAF Nimrod / Argentine B707 encounter Falklands War ?
Thread Starter
RAF Nimrod / Argentine B707 encounter Falklands War ?
Just read an article that claims one of the RAF Nimrods (presumably operating out of Ascension Island) had an 'up close encounter) with the Argentine Air Force 707 that was used to watch the UK forces.
It says they both 'looked each other over but, since both Aircraft were unarmed they continued on their way'
Is there any truth to this and does anyone have more details ?
It says they both 'looked each other over but, since both Aircraft were unarmed they continued on their way'
Is there any truth to this and does anyone have more details ?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No details on the proximity, but I doubt it would have been eyeball to eyeball QRA style. You could see a fair distance from a Nimrod window and I would guess it was a number of miles?
AFAIK it was the catalyst for
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...-nimrod-2.html
AFAIK it was the catalyst for
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...-nimrod-2.html
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, it's a true story.
We were at medium level, VMC between layers, conducting surface surveillance in support of the main TF somewhere south of ASI. While it wasn't quite a QRA style flying alongside and taking photos/waving copies of Playboy lookover the 707 (coming from the south) made a turn about 1000 feet above us, descended slightly and approached from about the 3 o'clock before making a leisurely turn in front of us and slowly disappearing from view. Probably a mile or two away at CPA.
Although we broadcast the details on HF and UHF (the HF was heard back at ASI and by forward elements of the TF further south), nothing was heard on board the main part of the TF about 50 miles away where the Harriers were (or so we were briefed) holding cockpit readiness with the aim of splashing the B707. Comms with the RN were ever thus!
Yes, it's said that it was that encounter (I believe there was another, though perhaps not so close) that led to the MR2 fleet being fitted with Sidewinder.
We were at medium level, VMC between layers, conducting surface surveillance in support of the main TF somewhere south of ASI. While it wasn't quite a QRA style flying alongside and taking photos/waving copies of Playboy lookover the 707 (coming from the south) made a turn about 1000 feet above us, descended slightly and approached from about the 3 o'clock before making a leisurely turn in front of us and slowly disappearing from view. Probably a mile or two away at CPA.
Although we broadcast the details on HF and UHF (the HF was heard back at ASI and by forward elements of the TF further south), nothing was heard on board the main part of the TF about 50 miles away where the Harriers were (or so we were briefed) holding cockpit readiness with the aim of splashing the B707. Comms with the RN were ever thus!
Yes, it's said that it was that encounter (I believe there was another, though perhaps not so close) that led to the MR2 fleet being fitted with Sidewinder.
Comms with the RN were ever thus! 
Yes, it's said that it was that encounter (I believe there was another, though perhaps not so close) that led to the MR2 fleet being fitted with Sidewinder.
Yes, it's said that it was that encounter (I believe there was another, though perhaps not so close) that led to the MR2 fleet being fitted with Sidewinder.
Very interesting and explains some background I didn't know. Action was immediately taken to fix the RN/RAF comms interoperability problem, but when the kit was delivered (very quickly, first a/c fitted in 1984) the RAF belatedly decided they didn't want it and for the next 12 years it languished unused until finally scrapped. What a ******* waste. Many tens of millions down the pan.
The problem arose again in the 90s in the Adriatic with the It***ans complaining they couldn't comminicate. But if the policy wasn't to be interoperable between UK Services, what chance was there between allies? This "no interoperability" policy was still extant in 2004, with DEC demanding its removal from any requirement, but I see in recent years it is being mentioned again, but perhaps not funded.
Don't my head hurts just reading the names
You could see a fair distance from a Nimrod window
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: home: United Kingdom
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tuc,
Most of the comms faffs between MPA and the RN (and/or other navies) had little to do withkit interoperability; more to do with the Human Machine Interface!
Duncs
Most of the comms faffs between MPA and the RN (and/or other navies) had little to do withkit interoperability; more to do with the Human Machine Interface!
Duncs
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SWAPS Inner
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn....now that is cutting edge techology.....one more reason to recall the Nimrod iddnit!
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: GB
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a few recorded mentions of UK forces contact with an Argentinian 707 (they had 3 at the time) during Op Corporate on the net. On 21 Apr 800 NAS sent up a sidewinder armed Sea Harrier to warn one away from the task force, on 12 May 201 Sqn made contact (as already mentioned) and on 22 May HMS Cardiff launched some Sea Dart missiles at one of the aircraft, which she evaded. They apparently didn't bother UK forces again after that.
Thread Starter
Interesting that the RN was able to shoot down a Learjet operating above 50000 feet and out of the envelope for Sea Dart but was not able to hit this 707 despite firing several at it.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
stilton, and their-in lies the difference between a MEZ and akill-zone.
To use an old set of data for the SA2. The MEZ was 40 but the kill zone was 27. In order to get a kill at 27 miles the missile had to be launched when the target entered the MEZ at 40.
If the target was non-cooperative, ie it evaded, it would remain clear of the kill zone until the missile ran out of ommph.
In the Learjet case I would opine the Learjet flew in to the kill zone in ignorance whereas the 707 was engaged when it entered the MEZ but then avoided the kill zone when it detected the missile launch.
To use an old set of data for the SA2. The MEZ was 40 but the kill zone was 27. In order to get a kill at 27 miles the missile had to be launched when the target entered the MEZ at 40.
If the target was non-cooperative, ie it evaded, it would remain clear of the kill zone until the missile ran out of ommph.
In the Learjet case I would opine the Learjet flew in to the kill zone in ignorance whereas the 707 was engaged when it entered the MEZ but then avoided the kill zone when it detected the missile launch.
Thread Starter
Thanks PN that makes sense. It appears the Learjet crew thought their height would protect them, I would imagine they would still have had considerable trepidation taking a civilian Aircraft into a war zone.
It was well deserved..
It was well deserved..
Suspicion breeds confidence
The plan was for Exeter to take out two Learjets as both were in range. Sadly the first bird failed to fly, but the second did and blew the tail off the Learjet and it spirraled down like a leaf. The screams of the crew were recorded in Fearless. I've not heard it but folks I know that have all said the same thing - "Good riddance!". It was a well laid trap by COMAW. BZ
As I heard it ( not long after the event for what it's worth) the Argentine Air Force were using the same set of data as the RN for Sea Dart/type 42......(there's a surprise). What they/the Learjet crew hadn't bargained on was the RN having a pop anyway and the intercept geometry favouring the missile.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manchester
Age: 36
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple of years ago i attended a lecture by Tony Blackman who i believe was BAe's chief test pilot at the time. He spoke about how the chaps at Woodford set about equipping the Nimrods with Sidewinder. Apparently after a photo of the armed MR2 'leaked' its way into the international press, the Argies decided they didn't fancy coming face to face with a large hemp coloured aircraft armed to the teeth.
