Marshall proposes C-130 MPA conversion to UK
Hmm,
The problem with the RAF have with the multi-role potential is twofold. Firstly, we've seldom had any spare capacity as we've flogged the frames to death - often in the semi-strat role it wasn't meant for to paper over the failings in procurement and the supportability issues with other aging fleets. Secondly, the RAF hierarchy has always ignored the usefulness of multi-role large ac whenever they became a threat to FJ; AC130 or Harvest Hawk - might endanger Jag/Harrier/GR4 (as would the Nimrod if it had been allowed to drop wpns when based at Basra rather than rely on GR4s/Tankers etc miles away...). The irony is that we've lost the Jag/Harrier anyway and savaged the GR4 front line....Genius...
As for dedicated ASW, perhaps a non-starter, but as a multi-role LRMPA why not? Oh, perhaps BAES have a pod that'll fit on a Typhoon...
The problem with the RAF have with the multi-role potential is twofold. Firstly, we've seldom had any spare capacity as we've flogged the frames to death - often in the semi-strat role it wasn't meant for to paper over the failings in procurement and the supportability issues with other aging fleets. Secondly, the RAF hierarchy has always ignored the usefulness of multi-role large ac whenever they became a threat to FJ; AC130 or Harvest Hawk - might endanger Jag/Harrier/GR4 (as would the Nimrod if it had been allowed to drop wpns when based at Basra rather than rely on GR4s/Tankers etc miles away...). The irony is that we've lost the Jag/Harrier anyway and savaged the GR4 front line....Genius...
As for dedicated ASW, perhaps a non-starter, but as a multi-role LRMPA why not? Oh, perhaps BAES have a pod that'll fit on a Typhoon...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Here and there, occasionally at home.
Age: 56
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mend Em
Thank you for the kind words, I shall pass them on to Mrs SFO!
And I hope that life is starting to return to some sort of normality for you and the many great people I had the pleasure of working with over the last 9 years.
I had hoped to get back down over the summer hols to catch up with folks but I am deploying to sunnier climes next week for 4 months (they are getting their pound of flesh - to be fair, I've got plenty spare!).
And I hope that life is starting to return to some sort of normality for you and the many great people I had the pleasure of working with over the last 9 years.
I had hoped to get back down over the summer hols to catch up with folks but I am deploying to sunnier climes next week for 4 months (they are getting their pound of flesh - to be fair, I've got plenty spare!).
Evalu8r has about the best option.
The "RAF" has never made any good or long lifed item from messing about with Mods to develop some new roles. All attempts have resulted in over-weight and over-stressed airframes that needed to be carefully nurtured to preserve the frame's life, and the crew's.
The only cash-effective answer is to start with a new frame built for the job.
Some areas of the forces have filled their gaps with smaller fuel efficient frames (B350's) and yes there is some new larger frames about.
But trying to reinvent the old "dreamship" from scrapped vans is a pure pipedream belonging to fans of BA Barracus. (And even his team didn't think of doing that to an aircraft!)
Of course, another obstacle SHOULD be the new MAA...if it ever gets its Sh1t together. The MAA should not be able to approve another bVggered-about botch job for future use.
The "RAF" has never made any good or long lifed item from messing about with Mods to develop some new roles. All attempts have resulted in over-weight and over-stressed airframes that needed to be carefully nurtured to preserve the frame's life, and the crew's.
The only cash-effective answer is to start with a new frame built for the job.
Some areas of the forces have filled their gaps with smaller fuel efficient frames (B350's) and yes there is some new larger frames about.
But trying to reinvent the old "dreamship" from scrapped vans is a pure pipedream belonging to fans of BA Barracus. (And even his team didn't think of doing that to an aircraft!)
Of course, another obstacle SHOULD be the new MAA...if it ever gets its Sh1t together. The MAA should not be able to approve another bVggered-about botch job for future use.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tullahoma TN
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I said before, it would never be a Nimrod but it would answer all those woe-is-me-we-have-no-SAR points that keep being raised.
What could a Nimrod that a P-8 can't do as well or better?
Or, if you want a turboprop maritime patrol plane, let's compare the merits of Marshall's C130 mods. to the price and capability of a rebuilt and modernized P-3? There's going to be some such P-3's on the market.
Maybe the RAF could benefit from having a couple of AC-130's. That's something to talk about.
What could a Nimrod that a P-8 can't do as well or better?
Or, if you want a turboprop maritime patrol plane, let's compare the merits of Marshall's C130 mods. to the price and capability of a rebuilt and modernized P-3? There's going to be some such P-3's on the market.
Maybe the RAF could benefit from having a couple of AC-130's. That's something to talk about.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Here and there, occasionally at home.
Age: 56
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doptrack
Thanks D, I shall endeavour to keep myself intact, although it will be hard in downtown Naples!
Take care and best of luck for the future.
Take care and best of luck for the future.
The problem is, that all discussion regarding the loss of the MRA4 focusses first and foremost on SAR. A LRMPA is much more than that and SAR is but a small element of its role and indeed, if you look at the international requirements, the MOD legally, only has to legally provide for Military operations.
LRMPA is about (amongst other tasks) locating tracking and prosecuting submarines and other surface contacts. To do that you first of all need a high transit speed to get you to the location, then the ability to loiter for a long period whilst using a multitude of sensors, in all sea states to find, fix and track and then if required, deliver a weapon to remove any threat.
By focussing on Search and Rescue, the argument is over simplified and does not recognise the true requirement of blue water maritime patrol.
LRMPA is about (amongst other tasks) locating tracking and prosecuting submarines and other surface contacts. To do that you first of all need a high transit speed to get you to the location, then the ability to loiter for a long period whilst using a multitude of sensors, in all sea states to find, fix and track and then if required, deliver a weapon to remove any threat.
By focussing on Search and Rescue, the argument is over simplified and does not recognise the true requirement of blue water maritime patrol.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Does anyone else get a feeling of dread when they see that Marshalls want to fiddle about with RAF aircraft in a new and previously untried manner?
How much would it cost to say have up to 7 radar kits able to roll-on /roll-off for about 6 aircraft which are re-lifed.
1. aircraft are already bought-need( overhauling.)
2.pilots/Nav's A/v current on C130J
3. radar operator may need be re-trained(I think somewhere there are some on exchange tours)
4.Seaseacher Radar already bought and pay for along with console.with Bae/Thales
assuming that was not destroyed aswell as the aircraft.
5.Thales have already done the design proving paperwork for aonther type of aircraft with apalletize option for another country.(TOSS)
6.Navy says they have some dosh a/v to pay for this.
What could go wrong
1. aircraft are already bought-need( overhauling.)
2.pilots/Nav's A/v current on C130J
3. radar operator may need be re-trained(I think somewhere there are some on exchange tours)
4.Seaseacher Radar already bought and pay for along with console.with Bae/Thales
assuming that was not destroyed aswell as the aircraft.
5.Thales have already done the design proving paperwork for aonther type of aircraft with apalletize option for another country.(TOSS)
6.Navy says they have some dosh a/v to pay for this.
What could go wrong
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 82
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We don't need a long range surveillance aircraft. We need a long range maritime patrol aircraft with a surface and sub-surface target location and attack capability. Search and rescue is important but is a second priority.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Marshalls?
Is this the same company that drilled holes in the wrong part of Tornado fleet?
Is this the same company that drilled holes in the wrong part of Tornado fleet?
Mr. Morgan To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the flight safety risk of the damage done by Airwork Ltd. in the course of the F3 Tornado modification programme; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. Aitken The damage, if unrepaired, would have reduced the aircraft's safe fatigue life and could have posed a flight safety risk. The detailed investigation now underway will assess the extent to which the damage to each aircraft affects its structural integrity and determine the most appropriate repair scheme.
§ Mr. Aitken The damage, if unrepaired, would have reduced the aircraft's safe fatigue life and could have posed a flight safety risk. The detailed investigation now underway will assess the extent to which the damage to each aircraft affects its structural integrity and determine the most appropriate repair scheme.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tullahoma TN
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How much would it cost to say have up to 7 radar kits able to roll-on /roll-off for about 6 aircraft which are re-lifed.
1. aircraft are already bought-need( overhauling.)
You seem to assume that the RAF has otherwise idle C130's on hand, or else the money to buy more low-time C-130's.
Also, why would a radar display on a roll-around cart be needed?
1. aircraft are already bought-need( overhauling.)
You seem to assume that the RAF has otherwise idle C130's on hand, or else the money to buy more low-time C-130's.
Also, why would a radar display on a roll-around cart be needed?
Clockwork mouse
"We need a long range maritime patrol aircraft with a surface and sub-surface target location and attack capability."
Actually we don't, not according to the Prime Minister, Defence Secretary, Chief of the Defence Staff and Chief of the Air Staff.
"We need a long range maritime patrol aircraft with a surface and sub-surface target location and attack capability."
Actually we don't, not according to the Prime Minister, Defence Secretary, Chief of the Defence Staff and Chief of the Air Staff.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: preston
Age: 76
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Widger
I am not even sure that a government of any persuasion is interested in a re-run of the cold war, hunting down Russian submarines.
At some stage in the foreseeable future, a large cruise liner is going to sink in the Eastern Atlantic.
We have nothing that can even carry any rescue/ survival equipment to 20W.
If / when this sinking happens with the subsequent loss of life, the political repercussions will be enormous.
If the USCG find the C130J a suitable SAR aircraft, I am sure we could use it, as we are planned to have airframes to spare.
I wish we could find someone other than Marsall's for the conversion.
I am not even sure that a government of any persuasion is interested in a re-run of the cold war, hunting down Russian submarines.
At some stage in the foreseeable future, a large cruise liner is going to sink in the Eastern Atlantic.
We have nothing that can even carry any rescue/ survival equipment to 20W.
If / when this sinking happens with the subsequent loss of life, the political repercussions will be enormous.
If the USCG find the C130J a suitable SAR aircraft, I am sure we could use it, as we are planned to have airframes to spare.
I wish we could find someone other than Marsall's for the conversion.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dalek
Re "We have nothing that can even carry any rescue/ survival equipment to 20W."
What about C17 ?
Can anything be pushed out the back of one like on a Herc ?
(This is a genuine question).
Re "We have nothing that can even carry any rescue/ survival equipment to 20W."
What about C17 ?
Can anything be pushed out the back of one like on a Herc ?
(This is a genuine question).
