Marshall proposes C-130 MPA conversion to UK
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Marshall proposes C-130 MPA conversion to UK
Marshall proposes C-130 MPA conversion to UK
Marshall Aerospace is offering to upgrade the UK Royal Air Force's (RAF's) Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules transport aircraft with a palletized 'roll-on roll-off' maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) mission kit.
The upgrade would help fill the capability gap that has resulted from the retirement in May 2011 of the BAE Systems Nimrod MR.2 and the cancellation of the Nimrod MRA.4 MPAs in the 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR).
With the retirement of the 1970s-era MR.2 (upgraded from the MR.1 standard which entered RAF service in 1969) and the axing of MRA.4, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) declared it would take a 'capability holiday' from the dedicated airborne maritime patrol mission. Instead, the role would be taken on by other assets in the RAF inventory, it said.
Marshall Aerospace feels that, of all the platforms in RAF service, the C-130 is best placed to assume the added mission. "The feasibility of using the C-130 in maritime patrol activity is a reasonable extension of the [aircraft's] role, using its adaptability and flexibility as a platform able to accept role changes," a company spokesperson told Jane's .
The concept would see any of the RAF's 24 C-130Js and approximately 11 C-130Ks (the 'K' fleet is being drawn down with aircraft being retired on a monthly basis) equipped to take a 'quick change conversion' mission kit.
Comments?
Marshall Aerospace is offering to upgrade the UK Royal Air Force's (RAF's) Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules transport aircraft with a palletized 'roll-on roll-off' maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) mission kit.
The upgrade would help fill the capability gap that has resulted from the retirement in May 2011 of the BAE Systems Nimrod MR.2 and the cancellation of the Nimrod MRA.4 MPAs in the 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR).
With the retirement of the 1970s-era MR.2 (upgraded from the MR.1 standard which entered RAF service in 1969) and the axing of MRA.4, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) declared it would take a 'capability holiday' from the dedicated airborne maritime patrol mission. Instead, the role would be taken on by other assets in the RAF inventory, it said.
Marshall Aerospace feels that, of all the platforms in RAF service, the C-130 is best placed to assume the added mission. "The feasibility of using the C-130 in maritime patrol activity is a reasonable extension of the [aircraft's] role, using its adaptability and flexibility as a platform able to accept role changes," a company spokesperson told Jane's .
The concept would see any of the RAF's 24 C-130Js and approximately 11 C-130Ks (the 'K' fleet is being drawn down with aircraft being retired on a monthly basis) equipped to take a 'quick change conversion' mission kit.
Comments?
Well, we all know how very well Arfur Daley's glass-cockpit TriStar conversion went, so there can be little doubt that they'd find no difficulty at all with a C-130 MPA conversion.....
Has ZD949 now been scrapped?
Has ZD949 now been scrapped?
And of course the crews will all come fully trained (and motivated), and the weapons/SAR kit/Buoys will all be cleared for release as soon as the role change has been applied and the hours for role currency training will be available in between Op hours etc etc etc.
Champagne anyone...?
And of course the crews will all come fully trained (and motivated), and the weapons/SAR kit/Buoys will all be cleared for release as soon as the role change has been applied and the hours for role currency training will be available in between Op hours etc etc etc.
Working on the assumption that burying a couple of Nimrods in the Pet Cemetary in the hope they'll rise from the dead probably isn't going to work, how about trying to find a solution with what we have actually got? How about actually hard-modifying a few Hercs to be role specfic LRMP/LRSAR? We're scrapping a few Js early (mental, obviously) so perhaps that could be refitted as dedicated maritime assets. They're obviously never going hunt down and sink Russian subs but they'd be pretty good for long range SAR/Patrol and for lobbing stuff out the back of.
The Herc is a very versatile and capable platform as the Americans repeatedly demonstrate (105mm guns, Hellfires, TV stations, rescue platforms, jammers etc etc). The RAF could do a lot more with its C130s if it wasn't quite so scared of anything even vaguely out of the ordinary
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Where are they going to put the weapons bay for Lindholme, Torpedos etc?
What about lookouts for SAR? Hanging off an open ramp?
They're 'avin' a laugh!
What about lookouts for SAR? Hanging off an open ramp?
They're 'avin' a laugh!
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Neptunus,
The SAR lookouts sit on the stools by the extra large SAR windows in the paradoors on the C-130J when we are carrying out the SAR role in the Sth Atlantic and now that we are also carrying out the SAR role in UK post Nimrod, so yeah, good point about the SAR lookouts..........
Anyway, all ridiculous, someone will suggest converting C-130J Mk5s into MPA/tankers next!
I'm looking forward to seeing Voyager and Atlas sat on the ramp at Mount Pleasant.
Er, Stoppers, do you think I'll live that long?
DR.
The SAR lookouts sit on the stools by the extra large SAR windows in the paradoors on the C-130J when we are carrying out the SAR role in the Sth Atlantic and now that we are also carrying out the SAR role in UK post Nimrod, so yeah, good point about the SAR lookouts..........
Anyway, all ridiculous, someone will suggest converting C-130J Mk5s into MPA/tankers next!
I'm looking forward to seeing Voyager and Atlas sat on the ramp at Mount Pleasant.
Er, Stoppers, do you think I'll live that long?
DR.
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Err....
If the Hercs are available as a platform then that can only be for one of 2 reasons;
1. The airframes are knackered and have no useful life left (without major overhaul) or
2. We can't afford to keep them in service.
Assuming that we are actually removing the Hercs from Service because of 2, why would we suddenly have the money to produce a lash-up using a palletised mission system (which doesn't exist in that sense - yes there are some MRA4 mission systems on pallets, that's a whole world away from a "palletised mission system")?
The capability has gone and it won't come back with half-arsed Frankensteinian attempts at resurrecting life from a dead corpse. It will take a lucid, coherent and, most importantly, properly funded strategy to begin to regain even a small part of the capability that has been unceremoniuosly dumped overboard.
Pulling My Yellow and Black handle tomorrow.
1. The airframes are knackered and have no useful life left (without major overhaul) or
2. We can't afford to keep them in service.
Assuming that we are actually removing the Hercs from Service because of 2, why would we suddenly have the money to produce a lash-up using a palletised mission system (which doesn't exist in that sense - yes there are some MRA4 mission systems on pallets, that's a whole world away from a "palletised mission system")?
The capability has gone and it won't come back with half-arsed Frankensteinian attempts at resurrecting life from a dead corpse. It will take a lucid, coherent and, most importantly, properly funded strategy to begin to regain even a small part of the capability that has been unceremoniuosly dumped overboard.
Pulling My Yellow and Black handle tomorrow.
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SFO,
"It will take a lucid, coherent and, most importantly, properly funded strategy to begin to regain even a small part of the capability that has been unceremoniuosly dumped overboard."
Will you stop that nonsense. Right now!
Duncs
PS. You got a job yet?
"It will take a lucid, coherent and, most importantly, properly funded strategy to begin to regain even a small part of the capability that has been unceremoniuosly dumped overboard."
Will you stop that nonsense. Right now!
Duncs
PS. You got a job yet?
Champagne anyone...?
If the Hercs are available as a platform then that can only be for one of 2 reasons;
1. The airframes are knackered and have no useful life left (without major overhaul) or
2. We can't afford to keep them in service.
1. The airframes are knackered and have no useful life left (without major overhaul) or
2. We can't afford to keep them in service.
3. The mighty A400 is coming to save the day so we can make a saving ditching the Mk5s.
Do we then:
a) sell at wa below market value as is our way
or
b) Use them as a LRMP SAR platform given that the rest of the C130J fleet will be soldiering on anyway (minimal additional support, IPT blah costs).
As I said before, it would never be a Nimrod but it would answer all those woe-is-me-we-have-no-SAR points that keep being raised.
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DaD
Stopping it now Sir!
Nope, trusting to luck (and hoping the CPL/IR arrives in the post - they've taken the money!).
Got the next 4 months deployed to get the CV sorted and then start the fun of resettlement and terminal leave in the New Year.
Worst comes to the worst, I think Stagecoach are still hiring in Elgin!
Nope, trusting to luck (and hoping the CPL/IR arrives in the post - they've taken the money!).
Got the next 4 months deployed to get the CV sorted and then start the fun of resettlement and terminal leave in the New Year.
Worst comes to the worst, I think Stagecoach are still hiring in Elgin!
Champagne anyone...?
Correct. But if they decide they want a LR SAR aircraft then modding something we already have is a "cheap" option.
It's all pie in the sky though as if we all survive the next few years of capability gap it will simply prove we don't need an LRMP. Job done
It's all pie in the sky though as if we all survive the next few years of capability gap it will simply prove we don't need an LRMP. Job done
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MPC-130 works for me; however, as stated previously - we're skint!
I just hope that it gets sorted before the lack of LRMPA results in unnecessary deaths.
Duncs
I just hope that it gets sorted before the lack of LRMPA results in unnecessary deaths.
Duncs
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"Correct. But if they decide they want a LR SAR aircraft then modding something we already have is a "cheap" option."
Which is a common mistake that many people make. Modding the MR2 to make the MRA4 was seen to be the cheap option, it didn't save anything at all, just made the job more complex and more costly.
Which is a common mistake that many people make. Modding the MR2 to make the MRA4 was seen to be the cheap option, it didn't save anything at all, just made the job more complex and more costly.
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Well what does this say.............
Marshalls have recognised what our Government seem to have missed, there is a requirement for an MPA aircraft.....
What else does it say?
Possibly they believe the UK Gov is stupid enough to scrap a complete package that was on its eve of delivery and will then shell out tons of money to develop another one, Money that could have been used to see the one we had into service........
Just about right that!
Marshalls have recognised what our Government seem to have missed, there is a requirement for an MPA aircraft.....
What else does it say?
Possibly they believe the UK Gov is stupid enough to scrap a complete package that was on its eve of delivery and will then shell out tons of money to develop another one, Money that could have been used to see the one we had into service........
Just about right that!
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Best Of Luck
SFO,
Completely the wrong place, but can't think of another place, so - best of luck to you (and to Mrs SFO) from a former colleague in the NW - it was a blast while it lasted and a privilege to work with people such as yourself. We tried our best, but it wasn't enough.
Regards
Completely the wrong place, but can't think of another place, so - best of luck to you (and to Mrs SFO) from a former colleague in the NW - it was a blast while it lasted and a privilege to work with people such as yourself. We tried our best, but it wasn't enough.
Regards
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Possibly they believe the UK Gov is stupid enough to scrap a complete package that was on its eve of delivery and will then shell out tons of money to develop another one, Money that could have been used to see the one we had into service........
The capability has gone and it won't come back with half-arsed Frankensteinian attempts at resurrecting life from a dead corpse.