PVRs started.....
manning was (supposedly) working on having the correct number in 3 years time based on normal outflow.
Which 'tard thought that one up?
Maybe the people on my fleet facing ground tours can head down to 45(R) and get through a re-role course instead then? Maybe all these empty Tristar cockpits can be a silver lining...
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Not knowing what is going on right now I can't understand why these capable people waiting in the wings aren't needed right now and in flying posts already. I would not have thought there was much slack in the system to cover the next 18 month's exits
FlapJack,
Subtle difference actually. Not enough people are applying for REDUNDANCY. Plenty of people PVRing. The PVR mob clearly do not want to wait around to be told to go and are taking their own initiative.
Subtle difference actually. Not enough people are applying for REDUNDANCY. Plenty of people PVRing. The PVR mob clearly do not want to wait around to be told to go and are taking their own initiative.
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5 Forward 6 Back
Maybe if the last OCU hadn't already started.
Maybe the people on my fleet facing ground tours can head down to 45(R) and get through a re-role course instead then? Maybe all these empty Tristar cockpits can be a silver lining...
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There's not enough money to fix it, though, nor enough time, is there?
Not any more. The time to do that was about 10 years ago..
You could improve accommodation, or make it much cheaper, but that again takes time and I don't think there are that many people leaving because of frequent postings or poor quarters.
Again, the time for that was in the early-mid 1990's upto early 2000's and for the most part, the lack of leadership, political will and concentration on greasy pole climbing shot that in the foot. What was done was peicemeal and in some cases, plain daft - new SLAM for instance at places that would close within 5 years. Surely, it is not beyond the wit of those who decide to have at least some vision, knowing the overal strategic direction?
And I thought things were being badly led when I was in... blimey. Glad I got out when I did.
Not any more. The time to do that was about 10 years ago..
You could improve accommodation, or make it much cheaper, but that again takes time and I don't think there are that many people leaving because of frequent postings or poor quarters.
Again, the time for that was in the early-mid 1990's upto early 2000's and for the most part, the lack of leadership, political will and concentration on greasy pole climbing shot that in the foot. What was done was peicemeal and in some cases, plain daft - new SLAM for instance at places that would close within 5 years. Surely, it is not beyond the wit of those who decide to have at least some vision, knowing the overal strategic direction?
And I thought things were being badly led when I was in... blimey. Glad I got out when I did.
Subtle difference actually. Not enough people are applying for REDUNDANCY. Plenty of people PVRing. The PVR mob clearly do not want to wait around to be told to go and are taking their own initiative.
Champagne anyone...?
The PVR mob clearly do not want to wait around to be told to go and are taking their own initiative.
MGD is quite correct in his assessment; of all the PVRees that I know none featured in any of the groups eligible for redundancy. Still, their master plan seems to be working - clearing out all of us crusty old PAS types who sit around all day knowing what we're on about.
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Hidden option
Manning should be all too aware of the fact that people have options (38,44 etc), but I believe that another factor will also ramp up the number of PVR's in the very near future: The PAS terms of service.
Those on PAS have a 5 year RoS in order to actually qualify for the rather enormous PAS pension. There are a shed-load of QHI's (my world - sure it's similar elsewhere, just don't know about plank-wing stuff), about to hit that mark. I could name at least a dozen QHI's who are just waiting until the pension is in the bag, and then they are off.
Would an FRI make me stay at that point? Of course it would - I'll be 43 (rapidly approaching) and Mrs Beefer and the Beefettes don't really mind what I do, as long as the bills are paid and the annual pilgrimage to a hot beach is not jeopardised. Everything I see, read, and hear is screaming at me to get out whilst the going is good. An FRI is all that would actually make me stay - I'll accept a timebar to 55, and sign it tomorrow, but it will cost £250k in my hand (ie after tax). Why 250k - well personally, I don't actually need any more, but I wouldn't stay for any less. I know chaps who would stay for 100, and guys who would not stay for any amount. A mere fraction of the cost of training our replacements. But hey, this is manning - the people who just made a load of pilots redundant, and are now worried because we don't have enough - something which was blindingly obvious to absolutely any frontline Flt Lt with half a brain.
Those on PAS have a 5 year RoS in order to actually qualify for the rather enormous PAS pension. There are a shed-load of QHI's (my world - sure it's similar elsewhere, just don't know about plank-wing stuff), about to hit that mark. I could name at least a dozen QHI's who are just waiting until the pension is in the bag, and then they are off.
Would an FRI make me stay at that point? Of course it would - I'll be 43 (rapidly approaching) and Mrs Beefer and the Beefettes don't really mind what I do, as long as the bills are paid and the annual pilgrimage to a hot beach is not jeopardised. Everything I see, read, and hear is screaming at me to get out whilst the going is good. An FRI is all that would actually make me stay - I'll accept a timebar to 55, and sign it tomorrow, but it will cost £250k in my hand (ie after tax). Why 250k - well personally, I don't actually need any more, but I wouldn't stay for any less. I know chaps who would stay for 100, and guys who would not stay for any amount. A mere fraction of the cost of training our replacements. But hey, this is manning - the people who just made a load of pilots redundant, and are now worried because we don't have enough - something which was blindingly obvious to absolutely any frontline Flt Lt with half a brain.
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MGD - Cheeky Fecker! Can I borrow half of yours then please? 
I just despair really, I still love my job (hence why I am not going to PVR just yet) but the fun has been taken away from us. We are all happy to work bloody hard and spend (on average) 6 months of every year away from home, but there has to be some give back wether it is AT or decent exercises or pay increases or decent rates and allowances. My point is unless people genuinely enjoy what they do and feel valued by those above, they will walk, especially if the job market in Civvy Street is on the up. The crisis point is approaching, what will they do?
I suspect, nothing.
I just despair really, I still love my job (hence why I am not going to PVR just yet) but the fun has been taken away from us. We are all happy to work bloody hard and spend (on average) 6 months of every year away from home, but there has to be some give back wether it is AT or decent exercises or pay increases or decent rates and allowances. My point is unless people genuinely enjoy what they do and feel valued by those above, they will walk, especially if the job market in Civvy Street is on the up. The crisis point is approaching, what will they do?
I suspect, nothing.
I would suggest that a visit from Manning is very much a case of closing the stable door....
As to what they (Manning) will, or more likely can, do. It will depend whether loss of manpower is widespread, or confined to certain pinch point trades (e.g. in this case pilots).
Any measures to address a widespread loss of manpower are likely to be very costly to implement, and therefore not likely to get past the Treasury, and will take a long time to have any real effect.
By contrast, addressing losses in certain specific trades is much easier and cheaper. The two standard methods of carrot and stick will be adopted. The carrot, perhaps an increase in the size of the FRI to £150,000 or maybe even £200,000. The stick, an increase in PVR times to say 18 months, and longer return of service timescales.
As to what they (Manning) will, or more likely can, do. It will depend whether loss of manpower is widespread, or confined to certain pinch point trades (e.g. in this case pilots).
Any measures to address a widespread loss of manpower are likely to be very costly to implement, and therefore not likely to get past the Treasury, and will take a long time to have any real effect.
By contrast, addressing losses in certain specific trades is much easier and cheaper. The two standard methods of carrot and stick will be adopted. The carrot, perhaps an increase in the size of the FRI to £150,000 or maybe even £200,000. The stick, an increase in PVR times to say 18 months, and longer return of service timescales.
Last edited by Biggus; 23rd Jul 2011 at 18:38.
perhaps an increase in the size of the FRI to £150,000 or maybe even £200,000.
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....and its not just pilots. CH47 Crewmen are leaving also to the point that at any one time 6xPVR have names attached. A month ago it was 9. I do not know workflow fiqures but can speculate that those through the door are not filling the gaps left by those out of the door, and that is before you start on about loss of experience or folk being given responsibility by default before they have the experience and capacity to do it justice. A few have had their PVR rejected due to RoS which is akin to a little finger in the dyke for a torrent on a later day.
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Dream on - to justify the expenditure, they would have to explain why they laid off 170 pilots......
Saying that I still don't think £150K or more will happen.
I'm not a pilot, or a rotary crewman, I won't benefit from any FRI, I don't have any personal interest in this matter..........and I did say "perhaps" 
Just speculating in response to the "..what will Manning do...." question!
Just speculating in response to the "..what will Manning do...." question!