MoD to buy 5 x P8 from USA - maybe
You got one letter wrong....
Aw Ditor, think you got one letter wrong in your post.
Shurley it should have been:
P F U...as in Probable (Something) Up??
Shurley it should have been:
P F U...as in Probable (Something) Up??
Last edited by bobward; 7th Jun 2011 at 11:50. Reason: Bad spelling again
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Looks nice 
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P8 Confusion; you know the media and aircraft types!
Perhaps this is the 'P8' they actually meant.
Piaggio P.8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is actually a maritime patrol aircraft, and with a bit of inventive accounting might even be something today's MoD could afford.
Piaggio P.8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is actually a maritime patrol aircraft, and with a bit of inventive accounting might even be something today's MoD could afford.
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Forgive me, but is this the P-8 that apparently has question marks about its ability to cope with turbulence/gust response/stress at low level?
Swept wings designed for FL300+ and all that sort of thing?
Swept wings designed for FL300+ and all that sort of thing?
Let's try and get things into perspective.
First of all do you believe the newspaper article? Even if you do, it just said that the MOD was "considering" buying some P-8s. I haven't actually worked in MOD (thank god!) but I have spoken to some who have. I would expect that someone was told to write a paper investigating the cost of getting back into the MPA game as cheaply as possible, so the information is readily available for any future discussions. It doesn't mean there is any actual intend to go ahead with the purchase!
Someone has stated the cost of the 5 airframes as £800 million odd, I don't know what support/spares package you get for that. However, there will be considerable infrastructure and support costs, not to mention introducing a new aircraft type, with subsequent logistics trail, into the MOD inventory. Also, as I said before, if we ordered them tomorrow they probably wouldn't arrive for at least three years. Look at the order to delivery time for the Indian C-17s as an example.
Given that the MOD budget is already overspent, and further cuts are being actively discussed, what will be cut to fund the £1Bn+ purchase and operating cuts for a P-8 fleet?
The RN has no prior experience of operating MPA, and the RAF seedcorn (a laughable 6 people) will expire in 3 years, making the introduction of MPA by either service a protracted affair.
We can debate the ins and outs till the cows come home, but it isn't going to happen in the short term - if at all.
Still, that (pointless discussion) is (a large) part of what pprune appears to be about....!
First of all do you believe the newspaper article? Even if you do, it just said that the MOD was "considering" buying some P-8s. I haven't actually worked in MOD (thank god!) but I have spoken to some who have. I would expect that someone was told to write a paper investigating the cost of getting back into the MPA game as cheaply as possible, so the information is readily available for any future discussions. It doesn't mean there is any actual intend to go ahead with the purchase!
Someone has stated the cost of the 5 airframes as £800 million odd, I don't know what support/spares package you get for that. However, there will be considerable infrastructure and support costs, not to mention introducing a new aircraft type, with subsequent logistics trail, into the MOD inventory. Also, as I said before, if we ordered them tomorrow they probably wouldn't arrive for at least three years. Look at the order to delivery time for the Indian C-17s as an example.
Given that the MOD budget is already overspent, and further cuts are being actively discussed, what will be cut to fund the £1Bn+ purchase and operating cuts for a P-8 fleet?
The RN has no prior experience of operating MPA, and the RAF seedcorn (a laughable 6 people) will expire in 3 years, making the introduction of MPA by either service a protracted affair.
We can debate the ins and outs till the cows come home, but it isn't going to happen in the short term - if at all.
Still, that (pointless discussion) is (a large) part of what pprune appears to be about....!
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As in so many other aspects of history - we have been here before. BAE will not dare kick up a stink about P-8 because it would just draw more attention to the MRA4; the only reason BAE haven't copped more stick already is that it suits both BAE and the MoD to gloss over the whole episode and hope it goes away. If a slanging match develops, I would not be entirely surprised to see some ugly truths about MRA4 finding their way into circulation. They were already hinted at in Fox's letter higher up the thread.
I said the press would kick up a stink, BAE would have nothing to gain commenting on any P8 purchase. Don't beleive any hint Fox has made about MRA4's supposed flaws because that plane would have been in service NOW had it not been axed, there are people here who flew the MRA4 who can verify it.
I'll say it one last time, MRA4 died because it was called Nimrod and that is the only reason.
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ES #52: Sunderland, like Stirling, were built at the rates funded by the Customer. Upon Declaration of War, Armament Profits Duty (1941: Excess Profits Tax) captured...what they say on the tin. Early Catalinas were ordered for money; they, and B-24s came to the King's Forces courtesy of US taxpayers. Very, very pleased we were to have them. And, yes, priority and status attached to Bomber, more than to Coastal Command. Many, then and now, believed resources would have paid better if applied to maritime: do I recall an assessment that B-29 did more devastating work against Japan as minesower, than as incendiary bomber?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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I know you spout drivvle from time to time, but can you point me in the direction of the tp's assertion that he was glad the aircraft would never fly again? I seem to have missed it....
There were problems, but you would be surprised by the number of senior decision makers that were influenced by unsubstantiated comments such as that...
I should really let it go.....
I know you spout drivvle from time to time, but can you point me in the direction of the tp's assertion that he was glad the aircraft would never fly again? I seem to have missed it....
There were problems, but you would be surprised by the number of senior decision makers that were influenced by unsubstantiated comments such as that...
I should really let it go.....
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I don't know either way, but we have had one test pilot from the Nimrod programme on here saying how glad he was that it would never fly again.
I don't know either way, but we have had one test pilot from the Nimrod programme on here saying how glad he was that it would never fly again.
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Of the P8, what happened to the four blow jobs are better than two doctrine that even the Japanese agreed with and built their own four engined maritime aircraft ?......
And whilst the Flightsim image looks the part, I would point out the airstair is an option on the 737, so that would be binned in the interests of economy, why have / give RAF crews an easy access facilty, when waiting for steps / landrover roof / tractor roof etc is a perfectly feasible option....
And whilst the Flightsim image looks the part, I would point out the airstair is an option on the 737, so that would be binned in the interests of economy, why have / give RAF crews an easy access facilty, when waiting for steps / landrover roof / tractor roof etc is a perfectly feasible option....
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I'll say it one last time, MRA4 died because it was called Nimrod and that is the only reason.
Think there's only one MRA4 pilot that Ive seen comment on these forums and he didn't say any of the ****e your spouting
Smoke signals from a camp site near a river in Maryland suggest the P-8 program is encountering some problems. Two engines shy of a real airplane....wings designed for hi-altitude cruise flight....MAD impossible at 30,000 feet.....Sonar Buoy drop patterns problematic from 30,000 feet.....being able to listen is nice being able to locate is the needed capability....then how does one drop a Torpedo from that height and it work upon arrival?
Folks in the know are suggesting the P-3 production line should be re-opened but that would require explaining how all the P-8 money was for naught....and that ain't something the Admiral's Flying Club wishes to discuss anywhere within earshot of anyone that matters.
Added into the mix is the fact the nice folks at Boeing Commerical speak either Air Force or Airliine but not Squidspeak.
All of which begs the question of whether the P-8 is worth buying at all!
How old is this program and just how much of taxpayer dosh has been spent to discover these small bumps in the roadway?
Folks in the know are suggesting the P-3 production line should be re-opened but that would require explaining how all the P-8 money was for naught....and that ain't something the Admiral's Flying Club wishes to discuss anywhere within earshot of anyone that matters.
Added into the mix is the fact the nice folks at Boeing Commerical speak either Air Force or Airliine but not Squidspeak.
All of which begs the question of whether the P-8 is worth buying at all!
How old is this program and just how much of taxpayer dosh has been spent to discover these small bumps in the roadway?