MoD to buy 5 x P8 from USA - maybe
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Having successfully knifed the Maritime force in the back to get their carriers,
What do you mean it wasn't supposed to be ironic??!!
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Definitely won't be Culdrose. A former maritime VSO proved the runway was too short for Nimrod Ops some years ago! Unlikely that P8 could operate from there at full weight.
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All jolly interesting.
What are we to make of this?
So the UK no longer had a maritime patrol requirement, and now it has!
Could it be that MRA4 had fundamental problems that just could not be fixed. It wouldn't do to admit that, would it? And, now that all frames have been scrapped, turns out that the UK really does have a requirement.
Imagine that.
What are we to make of this?
So the UK no longer had a maritime patrol requirement, and now it has!
Could it be that MRA4 had fundamental problems that just could not be fixed. It wouldn't do to admit that, would it? And, now that all frames have been scrapped, turns out that the UK really does have a requirement.
Imagine that.
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Yozzer
He did however mention 6 MPA crew (No specific trades mentioned) working in Canada until April 2014 to sustain MPA/ISTAR skills.
Just to clarify, that's 6 x crewpersons (ie 0.5 Nimrod crew) not 6 x MPA crews,
I'm sure that's what you meant to say! Wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong idea.
It was only a matter of time before this widely known (within the community) state of affairs came out into the public arena and, although my focus now lies firmly outside the service, I shall watch this thread with great interest and probably much amusement!
He did however mention 6 MPA crew (No specific trades mentioned) working in Canada until April 2014 to sustain MPA/ISTAR skills.
Just to clarify, that's 6 x crewpersons (ie 0.5 Nimrod crew) not 6 x MPA crews,
I'm sure that's what you meant to say! Wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong idea.It was only a matter of time before this widely known (within the community) state of affairs came out into the public arena and, although my focus now lies firmly outside the service, I shall watch this thread with great interest and probably much amusement!
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Don't worry everyone, it won't cost us that much.
There's a UK aviation company who will suggest that we get the frames half built and then they'll "finish them off" for us.
It'll save time and soooo much cash any government would be mad not to support their shareholders, ooops I mean financially viable proposal!
Or, perhaps we could give the kits to Mark Evans and he could do a series "An MPA is Born"?
There's a UK aviation company who will suggest that we get the frames half built and then they'll "finish them off" for us.
It'll save time and soooo much cash any government would be mad not to support their shareholders, ooops I mean financially viable proposal!
Or, perhaps we could give the kits to Mark Evans and he could do a series "An MPA is Born"?
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On what basis are we saying we cannot afford the supposed P-8 aircraft . Looking at the cost and investment in JSF/carriers -is it beyond the possibility of the U.K acquiring aircraft without paying large sums for the development of them?? It seems a virtually off the peg buy to me -maybe I am looking at it too simply??
manc,
Between 1938 and 1941 the British aircraft industry failed to deliver on a number of maritime aircraft programmes. The only really succesful indigenous design, the Sunderland, was built at a low rate because Shorts could make more money from the Stirling. The RAF responded by buying American MPA (first the Catalina and later the very-long-range Liberator). Predictably enough this provoked howls of protest from British industry, despite their lack of comparable offerings! Whilst both American aircraft were superb, it was the Liberator that was primarily responsible for closing the "Atlantic Gap" and effectively bringing the Battle of the Atlantic to an end.
As in so many other aspects of history - we have been here before. BAE will not dare kick up a stink about P-8 because it would just draw more attention to the MRA4; the only reason BAE haven't copped more stick already is that it suits both BAE and the MoD to gloss over the whole episode and hope it goes away. If a slanging match develops, I would not be entirely surprised to see some ugly truths about MRA4 finding their way into circulation. They were already hinted at in Fox's letter higher up the thread.
Between 1938 and 1941 the British aircraft industry failed to deliver on a number of maritime aircraft programmes. The only really succesful indigenous design, the Sunderland, was built at a low rate because Shorts could make more money from the Stirling. The RAF responded by buying American MPA (first the Catalina and later the very-long-range Liberator). Predictably enough this provoked howls of protest from British industry, despite their lack of comparable offerings! Whilst both American aircraft were superb, it was the Liberator that was primarily responsible for closing the "Atlantic Gap" and effectively bringing the Battle of the Atlantic to an end.
As in so many other aspects of history - we have been here before. BAE will not dare kick up a stink about P-8 because it would just draw more attention to the MRA4; the only reason BAE haven't copped more stick already is that it suits both BAE and the MoD to gloss over the whole episode and hope it goes away. If a slanging match develops, I would not be entirely surprised to see some ugly truths about MRA4 finding their way into circulation. They were already hinted at in Fox's letter higher up the thread.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Easy Street, you might also have mentioned the P2 that was loaned until Avro got the Shacks into production.
It is also interesting to consider how few dedicated MPA, as opposed to airliner conversions, there have been.
Without deep research the Catalina, Neptune, Atlantic/que, the Japanese one, Shackleton and the Walrus were some of the very few and mostly very successful.
It is also interesting to consider how few dedicated MPA, as opposed to airliner conversions, there have been.
Without deep research the Catalina, Neptune, Atlantic/que, the Japanese one, Shackleton and the Walrus
were some of the very few and mostly very successful.
But the Shackleton GR1 was only a conversion of a Manchester Bomber, albeit through the Lancaster/Lincoln versions.
Manchester + 2 engines = Lancaster
Lancaster + bigger wing = Lincoln
Lincoln + bigger fuselage = Shackleton
So I wouldn't put it in the dedicated MPA class, even if it is not in the converted airlines class.
Manchester + 2 engines = Lancaster
Lancaster + bigger wing = Lincoln
Lincoln + bigger fuselage = Shackleton
So I wouldn't put it in the dedicated MPA class, even if it is not in the converted airlines class.
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Cost effective solution?
Why not buy some ex-R*an*ir 737-800s, and, in the spirit of their former owner, have them converted for the MR role, BUT have the mission kit coin-operated? You could even have speedy boarding for the Occifers! SEEMPLES!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ZH, I was being cautious, on that ground I would omit the B17 and B24 and was why I omitted the Whitley and Wellington.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I think it has to be said that the best attempt at an off-the-drawing board MPA was Breguet's although only having 2 engines put the Air Ministry off that chance of European collaboration.
The engine doors also made a devastating airbrake but at least it ditched well and floated.
The engine doors also made a devastating airbrake but at least it ditched well and floated.