Royal Air Force Club
Is there a comaparable Club for non-commissioned RAF personnel in the 21st Century, or "just" the UJ CLub and Victory?
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there's a bit of a generational theme here
I wholeheartedly agree with melchett01, ancient aviator and similar. After 12 years of membership I, too, resigned this year after not once being able to get a room at the Club.
Jindabyne, your belief that "many" members of previous generations are familiar with our current op tempo and the short notice of our postings and movements would, I suspect, be impossible to substantiate. I have previously been given 3 days' notice to spend 4 months on a full-board, flight-included sunshine and sand extravaganza on the MoD and have actually been lucky enough to have been selected for one of such events on a annual basis for 6 years - none with more than 2 months notice and several of 6 months duration. We never actually know when we are going to get back until we step off the plane at Brize! I am certainly not unusual in this - it's normal now. How are we to book 6 months in advance? I am lucky if I can book 6 weeks in advance, because it's not just my own movements that are last minute and unpredictable, but those of everyone with whom I work and whose job I have to cover when they're away. Generations past may have had what is now called 'turmoil' but never has it been sustained for so many years - and with so few personnel.
I am very sad to have left it, but the RAF Club categorically does not meet the needs of today's serving RAF officers (those who are not London-based). The exodus of 'younger' (it's all relative!) members cannot be argued with. Those of the generations with more life experience, shall we say, can keep their Club as it is (for it is their Club) and opine that it is fine and serves our interests. Time will tell who is right.
Jindabyne, your belief that "many" members of previous generations are familiar with our current op tempo and the short notice of our postings and movements would, I suspect, be impossible to substantiate. I have previously been given 3 days' notice to spend 4 months on a full-board, flight-included sunshine and sand extravaganza on the MoD and have actually been lucky enough to have been selected for one of such events on a annual basis for 6 years - none with more than 2 months notice and several of 6 months duration. We never actually know when we are going to get back until we step off the plane at Brize! I am certainly not unusual in this - it's normal now. How are we to book 6 months in advance? I am lucky if I can book 6 weeks in advance, because it's not just my own movements that are last minute and unpredictable, but those of everyone with whom I work and whose job I have to cover when they're away. Generations past may have had what is now called 'turmoil' but never has it been sustained for so many years - and with so few personnel.
I am very sad to have left it, but the RAF Club categorically does not meet the needs of today's serving RAF officers (those who are not London-based). The exodus of 'younger' (it's all relative!) members cannot be argued with. Those of the generations with more life experience, shall we say, can keep their Club as it is (for it is their Club) and opine that it is fine and serves our interests. Time will tell who is right.
I fully understand that the ridiculous overstretch and undermanning of today's RAF cause considerable turbulence - but, apart from during my UAS QFI tour, I certainly couldn't guarantee to be able to book ahead for anything unless it coincided with a period of approved annual leave.
I do think, though, that a quick-access 'availability' overview would be helpful for those wishing to book a room.
Perhaps a number of rooms should be kept 'free' for current serving officers only - but with a cut-off after which they could be made generally available? For example, 10 rooms could not be booked by anyone except current serving officers until the week beforehand? The numbers of rooms and days beforehand might need tweaking, but as a general concept??
I do think, though, that a quick-access 'availability' overview would be helpful for those wishing to book a room.
Perhaps a number of rooms should be kept 'free' for current serving officers only - but with a cut-off after which they could be made generally available? For example, 10 rooms could not be booked by anyone except current serving officers until the week beforehand? The numbers of rooms and days beforehand might need tweaking, but as a general concept??
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I don't begrudge the old Rowley Birkin types propped up in the best seats of the Cowdray Room as I aspire to be the same one day!
Many decades ago I signed up for the Club as part of the OCTU (that's how long ago!) jaunt, and like many on this thread bemoaned the fact that, as a serving officer I had the devil's own job to get a room. The place seemed stuffed with old farts who regarded anybody that wasn't there at least 5 days a week as a bounder and an outsider.
However, the young tyros eventually get older and become .....hurrrumph.... one of those taking the comfy chairs. Plus ca change!
I only dropped out 'cos I couldn't justify the annual subs while living in Oz. Pity one can't get temporary membership for that one night a decade when one is in town - would love to show the new Mrs Sisemen around.
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This is yet another occasion when I am rather glad that I was less than successful academically, membership of a club you can hardly ever use because it's always booked up by old duffers and then feeling guilty about cancelling your membership, what a thoroughly quaint notion 
But Has Anybody Told the Club???
A host of interesting posts, covering a wide spectrum of views.
However, I don't believe anybody would wish to see the club deep in the fertiliser. Those with criticisms of its facilities, style, costs etc ought to tell Peter Owen - the club secretary - and ask that he tables those views at the next committee meeting. There's something of the old chime: "If you enjoyed what we did - tell your friends - if you didn't - tell us".
I for one will stick with my membership for as long as the pluses beat the minuses.
Incidentally, I stayed at a Travel Lodge next to a petrol station on the ring road round Shrewsbury last weekend. Cost me £50 for the bed, bring your own soap, another tenner if I wanted breakfast at the pub across the yard - but only after 0800 hours.
However, I don't believe anybody would wish to see the club deep in the fertiliser. Those with criticisms of its facilities, style, costs etc ought to tell Peter Owen - the club secretary - and ask that he tables those views at the next committee meeting. There's something of the old chime: "If you enjoyed what we did - tell your friends - if you didn't - tell us".
I for one will stick with my membership for as long as the pluses beat the minuses.
Incidentally, I stayed at a Travel Lodge next to a petrol station on the ring road round Shrewsbury last weekend. Cost me £50 for the bed, bring your own soap, another tenner if I wanted breakfast at the pub across the yard - but only after 0800 hours.
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Zulu
I would like to think that I'm right in my belief, and that most ex-serving members have the utmost respect and understanding for those that were and are deployed on current operations; I'm curious as to why you should think otherwise. Next week I'll be in the company of many ex-serving old farts, and I'm certain that 100% will substantiate my belief, and would be dismayed if thought of otherwise.
BEags,
Go along with your ideas of 'quick-access availability & rooms for serving officers'. Perhaps it's timely for a formal representation to Peter Owen (a good listener), as mentioned by Old Duffer?
Jindabyne, your belief that "many" members of previous generations are familiar with our current op tempo and the short notice of our postings and movements would, I suspect, be impossible to substantiate.
BEags,
Go along with your ideas of 'quick-access availability & rooms for serving officers'. Perhaps it's timely for a formal representation to Peter Owen (a good listener), as mentioned by Old Duffer?
Last edited by jindabyne; 26th Nov 2009 at 13:36.
If it would encourage the younger element to keep up their membership and perhaps one day themselves to become old farts dampening the comfy chairs in the corner, I'd certainly add my vote to a scheme reserving a number of rooms for serving officers until a week beforehand.Sentence too long and insufficiently punctuated.
However, it must be for a 'young blade' to propose this - secure in the knowledge that many of the old and once-bold would support it.
Are you going to be meeting with the likes of foldie next week?? Have a great time!
However, it must be for a 'young blade' to propose this - secure in the knowledge that many of the old and once-bold would support it.
Are you going to be meeting with the likes of foldie next week?? Have a great time!
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Step up young blade - you might be surprised at the aged support you would have.
Yup, he'll be around 'till late - surprises me how lucid he always is at breakfast (perhaps the reason's obvious!!). More often than not, we also have the delight of bumping into RPE draped over one of those comfy chairs in the corner - always a pleasure, regardless that he always quaffs a plentiful share of our grog!
Yup, he'll be around 'till late - surprises me how lucid he always is at breakfast (perhaps the reason's obvious!!). More often than not, we also have the delight of bumping into RPE draped over one of those comfy chairs in the corner - always a pleasure, regardless that he always quaffs a plentiful share of our grog!
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Over my time at least , from witnessing the spectacle of Air Marshals doing "The Twist" in the Club's Disco in the late 60's to the current debate , the Club has always been open to the criticism of being anachronistic to current Service mores and demands.
It surely always has been somewhat biased towards the tastes of the more ancient regime.
Like many of us of a particular generation , I always considered it a case of "pay up and put up- for if you're lucky you might be old yourself one day".
Not so now then.
It surely always has been somewhat biased towards the tastes of the more ancient regime.
Like many of us of a particular generation , I always considered it a case of "pay up and put up- for if you're lucky you might be old yourself one day".
Not so now then.
Last edited by RETDPI; 26th Nov 2009 at 15:42. Reason: smelling pisstake
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I am not averse to the more mature retirees in the Club. I find them a source of great discussion, and banter. I am more annoyed at the inability to get a room as per the above, as I too mostly like the place - although I have problems with the office staffs' occasional inability to understand English. Being a current serving 'old fart' myself, I would like to have had the cheap accommodation returning from the land of the headpiece - but nil-stock!
Oh, and by the way, I don't need the glossy magazine with pictures of the recent dinner......save some money...!
There is a Discussion area you can access on the Club's site, so does someone want to start a thread there on 'complaints'...?
Oh, and by the way, I don't need the glossy magazine with pictures of the recent dinner......save some money...!
There is a Discussion area you can access on the Club's site, so does someone want to start a thread there on 'complaints'...?
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On taking my then girlfriend (to be wife) there and finding out they only had a double single bed room available........ east european girl at reception says:
"you can push ze beds togethers"
The shower was great btw.
"you can push ze beds togethers"
The shower was great btw.
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Perhaps someone ought to tap the Club "authorities" on the shoulder and point them in the direction of this thread.
jindabyne
More often than not, we also have the delight of bumping into RPE draped over one of those comfy chairs in the corner - always a pleasure, regardless that he always quaffs a plentiful share of our grog!
FL
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'I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members'.
Groucho Marks
Don't know the point of that interjection, but I'm an old fart, never used the club. Good luck to them who do.
"Steward, bring me another Stingah! Never like this in the old day's. Harrumph, what say you, Binky old boy?"
Groucho Marks
Don't know the point of that interjection, but I'm an old fart, never used the club. Good luck to them who do.
"Steward, bring me another Stingah! Never like this in the old day's. Harrumph, what say you, Binky old boy?"
Why not have an RAF Club for all the RAF - shock statement
Surely in this day and age the RAF Club should be for all the RAF, but no (according to comments on this site) you can serve a Short Commission and have life time membership but if you serve a life time in the Service and retire at 55, thanks - good bye and don't darken the RAF Clubs door step! 
I don't know all the rules and regulations but is it true that you can join the UAS and never the real RAF but get a potential life time membership of the RAF Club- this can't be true surely?
On a serious side if the RAF Club is looking for support open its self up to the whole RAF!
I don't know all the rules and regulations but is it true that you can join the UAS and never the real RAF but get a potential life time membership of the RAF Club- this can't be true surely?
On a serious side if the RAF Club is looking for support open its self up to the whole RAF!
Robby NL
Non commissioned personnel of all the Services have the opportunity to join the Union Jack Club which is considerably cheaper than the RAF Club (and I'm sure the Army and RN officer corps equivalents (if such things still exist). The UJ Club does allow officers to stay on a temporary membership basis but have to pay (and quite rightly IMHO) more per night!
Perhaps only when we go fully down the line of combined messes (including mixed bars and eating areas [i.e. no tables set aside for officers and SNCOs], will the RAF Club look to open up its membership accordingly - but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Wonder what happens when a son or daughter of a current Club member, and who holds in their own right a family membership, subsequently joins the Air Force (or Army/Navy) as an airman/soldier/sailor. Are they forced to resign or should they keep their mouth shut, maintain the family membership, and secretly 'buck' the system! And then book all their "oik" mates in for a big pi55 up, particularly when BEags is in town!
Non commissioned personnel of all the Services have the opportunity to join the Union Jack Club which is considerably cheaper than the RAF Club (and I'm sure the Army and RN officer corps equivalents (if such things still exist). The UJ Club does allow officers to stay on a temporary membership basis but have to pay (and quite rightly IMHO) more per night!
Perhaps only when we go fully down the line of combined messes (including mixed bars and eating areas [i.e. no tables set aside for officers and SNCOs
], will the RAF Club look to open up its membership accordingly - but I wouldn't hold your breath.Wonder what happens when a son or daughter of a current Club member, and who holds in their own right a family membership, subsequently joins the Air Force (or Army/Navy) as an airman/soldier/sailor. Are they forced to resign or should they keep their mouth shut, maintain the family membership, and secretly 'buck' the system!
And then book all their "oik" mates in for a big pi55 up, particularly when BEags is in town!
