Operation Crossbow Sunday 15th May 2100
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500N said: Didn't the RAF also try flying alongside the V1's and using the wing tips to "tip" the V1 off balance so it crashed in the countryside ?
Ski shaped buildings
The programme made great store of the mysterious "ski sites", but then revealed rather lamely that they were to "store V1s".
Anybody know why they were ski shaped? The best I can think of was they were partly built a curved railway that carried the missiles to the launch ramp.
Anybody know why they were ski shaped? The best I can think of was they were partly built a curved railway that carried the missiles to the launch ramp.
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Ski Shaped Buildings
@ Trim Stab,
I suspect the primary reason for the curved shape was for reduction of blast damage in case of Allied bombing or a V1 failure on ramp. A possible secondary, though minor, reason would be the reduction in wind tunnel effect through the store. This would make working conditions slightly better.
Hval
Anybody know why they were ski shaped?
Hval
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A really good read is....
Most Secret War by R.V.Jones ISBN 978-0-141-04282-4 Penguin Military History
The hut was non magnetic and vital to setting the bomb's heading correctly. RVJ has lots on V-1 and V-2 intelligence etc.
He mentions Mosquito PR almost as often as Spitfire PR sorties.
The man was a genius [with a wicked sense of humour].
Most Secret War by R.V.Jones ISBN 978-0-141-04282-4 Penguin Military History
The hut was non magnetic and vital to setting the bomb's heading correctly. RVJ has lots on V-1 and V-2 intelligence etc.
He mentions Mosquito PR almost as often as Spitfire PR sorties.
The man was a genius [with a wicked sense of humour].
Last edited by aviate1138; 16th May 2011 at 08:04. Reason: added words
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Maybe it's just me, but I didn't watch the programme with the impression that RV Jones and Babbington Smith had been 'airbrushed out'; simply that people involved in the story who were still alive were interviewed. That said, I agree that their inclusion would have provided a fuller account.
Still, a good hour of TV.
Duncs
Still, a good hour of TV.
Duncs
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Very disappointed in the programme to be honest. Not as much seemed to be made of the 3D maps that the trailers implied. For me, it went down hill when the commentator said that "Medmenham was 60 kilometres from London" and referred to the photos being taken from 9000m or 40m....
I watched the The Secret War as posted in #30 before seeing the programme last night and like some others was surprised that no mention was made of Prof Jones.
An average programme made to try and impress with the 3D graphics for the computer / X-box generation.
I watched the The Secret War as posted in #30 before seeing the programme last night and like some others was surprised that no mention was made of Prof Jones.
An average programme made to try and impress with the 3D graphics for the computer / X-box generation.
Sequence of Events
I know that history is often re-written as new material comes to light, but I think the BBC programme got the sequences of events wrong when the programme described the 'discovery' of Peenemunde in 1943. Unfortunately as I am not in the UK I can't check with I-Player. Through a variety of HUMINT and other sources, SIS (and through Dr Jones), the Air Staff, were aware that something was going on at Peenemunde before the PRU Spitfire happend to take photographs of the airfield 'on spec', as claimed last night. Again, Jones' book (op cit) pp 332-348 describes his version of the sequence of events, stating that the first tasked PRU sortie took place on 22 Apr 43, by which time there were very strong suspiscions that something was going on there.
This was after Duncan Sandys was appointed to lead the investigation of the NAZI missile programme. Jones also refers to the misidentification of the V-1 facilites as 'sewage sludge pumps' - which was referred to in the programme, but attributed to the post-war volunteers now working in Edinburgh. Certainly, to me the three circular features do look like secondary sedimentation and aeration tanks (demonstrating my detailed knowledge of such things!). Perhaps it was not by chance that post war, Duncan Sandys became so obsessed with an All Missile Air Force, resulting in his report and massive cut-backs in aircraft development from - and reduction of the RAF - from 1958 onwards.
One thing I do not like in these sorts of programmes and modern 'time team' type recreations is the pretend ignorance and pretend discoveries of the present-day participants. The ' look, I think we've found a V1 site' when they are looking at a PRU summary of a...V1 site.
This was after Duncan Sandys was appointed to lead the investigation of the NAZI missile programme. Jones also refers to the misidentification of the V-1 facilites as 'sewage sludge pumps' - which was referred to in the programme, but attributed to the post-war volunteers now working in Edinburgh. Certainly, to me the three circular features do look like secondary sedimentation and aeration tanks (demonstrating my detailed knowledge of such things!). Perhaps it was not by chance that post war, Duncan Sandys became so obsessed with an All Missile Air Force, resulting in his report and massive cut-backs in aircraft development from - and reduction of the RAF - from 1958 onwards.
One thing I do not like in these sorts of programmes and modern 'time team' type recreations is the pretend ignorance and pretend discoveries of the present-day participants. The ' look, I think we've found a V1 site' when they are looking at a PRU summary of a...V1 site.
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 16th May 2011 at 11:16.
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And who was that beared USAF 'Colonel'. Looked rather young to me and a bit of a Walt.
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@ aviate1138
I assume that you are talking about a separate building to the "on their side skis" structures. These ski structures would not allow you to align the compass due to the fact they comprised a lot of steel reinforced concrete. The V1's would have to be taken outside, and well away from any steel to align them. Once the V1 had been hit sufficiently to align its magnetic field they would have to be used fairly quickly before the magnetic fields in the steel & iron of the V1 changed again.
Wooden mallets were used for a couple of reasons; no sparks and also less likely to fracture or deform the V1 casing.
The hut was non magnetic and vital to setting the bomb's heading correctly.
Wooden mallets were used for a couple of reasons; no sparks and also less likely to fracture or deform the V1 casing.
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Whenurhapppy.....
"Perhaps it was not by chance that post war, Duncan Sandys became so obsessed with an All Missile Air Force, resulting in his report and massive cut-backs in aircraft development from - and reduction of the RAF - from 1958 onwards."
Aviate muses
Perhaps it was not by chance that during the war, Duncan Sandys got his job because he had married Churchill's daughter, Diana?
He was also famous for saying the missile menace for London was over and I think the very next day the first V-2 fell on Chiswick!
How is it so many dumb politicians manage to get such top jobs??????
"Perhaps it was not by chance that post war, Duncan Sandys became so obsessed with an All Missile Air Force, resulting in his report and massive cut-backs in aircraft development from - and reduction of the RAF - from 1958 onwards."
Aviate muses
Perhaps it was not by chance that during the war, Duncan Sandys got his job because he had married Churchill's daughter, Diana?
He was also famous for saying the missile menace for London was over and I think the very next day the first V-2 fell on Chiswick!
How is it so many dumb politicians manage to get such top jobs??????
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About to be shown again now on BBC HD.
Also here on iPlayer:
Op CROSSBOW On BBC iPlayer
Living at Medmenham now I thought it very interesting.
STH
Also here on iPlayer:
Op CROSSBOW On BBC iPlayer
Living at Medmenham now I thought it very interesting.
STH
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Bit suprised at the comments on here re: Constance Babbington-Smith as she was mentioned several times that I saw.
Bit disappointing they didn't give any screen time to the PR Mossies but then there's not exactly an airworthy one handy....
Bit disappointing they didn't give any screen time to the PR Mossies but then there's not exactly an airworthy one handy....
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Sorry to be pedantic Rakshasa but there is not one mention of Constance Babbington-Smith in the recent BBC 'OPERATION CROSSBOW" Documentary.
In all the 59:02 minutes - not one hint of Constance B-S. Dr R.V. Jones
Plenty of footage in the 1988 "Secret War" Episode 3, along with the amazing R.V.Jones.
BTW Peenemünde was already known about from the 'Oslo Report' in 1939! Not some PR pilot with some spare emulsion available.
RV Jones Chapter 38 MOST SECRET WAR page 332 paperback edition
The 1988 BBC "Secret War" Ep 3 was so much better researched IMHO.
In all the 59:02 minutes - not one hint of Constance B-S. Dr R.V. Jones
Plenty of footage in the 1988 "Secret War" Episode 3, along with the amazing R.V.Jones.
BTW Peenemünde was already known about from the 'Oslo Report' in 1939! Not some PR pilot with some spare emulsion available.
RV Jones Chapter 38 MOST SECRET WAR page 332 paperback edition
The 1988 BBC "Secret War" Ep 3 was so much better researched IMHO.
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R V Jones was Prof of Physics (Natural Philosophy in nu-speak) at Aberdeen Uni post-war. Met him several times when I was at said establishment - lovely chap - and he was a very strong supporter of both the Uni Air Squadron and the URNU there in the 70s. And as a previous poster has intimated had a wicked sense of humour - he gave an annual lecture on practical jokes which was one of the highlights of the academic year (it was perhaps just meant to be a Physics lecture).
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I visited La Coupole (Wizernes), not far from Calais, a few years ago and would strongly recommend the trip. It is an amazing feat of engineering, despite it's death dealing purpose. But a terrible crime that it was built by slave labour and hundreds died during it's construction. Next time you're buying cheap booze across the "moat", vsit the place.
The slave labour survivor's piece in the Op Crossbow programme was very moving. And we think animals are cruel!
The slave labour survivor's piece in the Op Crossbow programme was very moving. And we think animals are cruel!