Lost Navy SEALS Helo.....Wot really happened??

[Tourist]

baechbunny

I'm pretty sure that "settling with power" is what the US calls vortex ring.
What you are talking about there is recirculation, something totally different, and I have to say not what I reckon is likely in this scenario.

[bakseetblatherer]

I have got my tin foil hat on for this thread. It has four pages but no matter what I click (even manually putting the URL for page four in) I get sent to page 3! Obviously some super secret info on page 4 the 'THEY' don't want us to know....

... or the forum code is a bit stuffed.

[back end o' the bus]

Yeah me too..its a conspiracy!!!

Ps Could it have blown a SEAL???!!!

They can't touch you for that!! I'll get my jacket

[forget]

[beachbunny]

Tourist

Been a while since I was in that arena, but yes, vortex ring is the other term I couldn't remember. I thought though that "recirculation" as you call it would be the same thing, causes such as steep descent, downwind approach, etc etc.
Recovery, nose down a little, try to run forward out of it, Oh sh... there's a wall in front of me! Very feasible.
Of course, as always, there's other things that could have the same end result.

[500N]

"I have got my tin foil hat on for this thread. It has four pages but no matter what I click (even manually putting the URL for page four in) I get sent to page 3! Obviously some super secret info on page 4 the 'THEY' don't want us to know....

... or the forum code is a bit stuffed."

It happens on quite a few threads when it gets to the max number of posts, it seems to create the net page even though nothing has been posted on it.


Re SF pushing the boundaries, it is all a calculated risk / reward and to an outsider it appears dangerous but because SF tend to have been there or close to it before, they are better at making risky judgement calls.

[wokkamate]

Its a Stealth Hawk......

Why the crash? Overcooked the approach, too high nose up and stuck the tail in the wall. They have done it before and will do it again. Most of the time the tail doesn't come off though!

That said, awesome bunch of blokes, balls the size of footballs (British not American) and a job well done. Who cares about one little heli, they have hundreds.......

[Lonewolf_50]

Who cares about one little heli, they have hundreds.......

Well, if it is the alleged super secret stealth Black Hawk, they don't have hundreds ... losing one would be quite bothersome to the Special Ops Command.

[RileyDove]

Bearing in mind Pakistan has had 20 BN in U.S aid since 2001 and currently wants more I think its a pretty safe bet that the remains of this machine is back in U.S hands already.

[Lonewolf_50]

I hope you are right, but given the public discomfort that Pakistani government has expressed over this raid into their territory, one cannot be too sure.

[blkhwk_64]

blade strike
tail strike
wires
powerloss due to recirculation
powerloss due to temp, altitude and load
uneven surface
blade damage due to recirculation (sucking thru blades in confined area)
error during roping
hard landing
nerves
shot down

considering this was the SOAR and SealTeam6 who do nothing else but this type of thing only last option sounds reasonable.

the rest i can not imagine having been overlooked by these kinda guys during the planning stage. further they had ample opportunity to practise this setup under the exact same conditions at the replica they build for exactly this purpose.

what makes most sense thru is that this poor helicopter was never intended to get outa there in the first place. leaves a nice unmistakable footprint and NO doubt as who or what.

imagine what the silly press and folks would make out of this without the dead heli at that site.

this was a great job done (finally) and well planned (down to the dealing with the press and the mob)

RIP helicopter.

[teeteringhead]

...... or in the words of the SH Songbook ........

...and the Navy's on the fence in the morning!"

[Uncle Ginsters]

Perhaps the explosives intended to destroy the helicopter after the crash went off a bit early?

Or, as mentioned above, it was always intended to be a sacrificial one-way asset - i'd say that OBL was worth it to the US.

[Evalu8ter]

It wouldn't been the first SF raid where a cab was "sacrificed". The Son Tay raid envisaged sacrificing the first cab in as the LS was too small for it - it was deemed more important to get the assault team close to the objective. I believe that Eagle Claw would have struggled to bring all the helos back too.

However, my bet is still tail strike on the compound wall.....

[Monty77]

Tail rotor strike on the compound wall as he overcooked it on the way in.

Some of you may recall the two tailwheel holes in the wriggly tin wall at Dungannon. OC 72 and STANO. Libellous in this day and age, but I was FLANG (Flight Lieutenants Against Non-Graduates) as opposed to FOLA, a bunch of virgins who couldn't read or write. Or fly very well come to think of it. Hat on.

Looks to me like he left the tail rotor on the outside of the compound while he (or she, obviously) enjoyed a relatively short and low speed crash to where the fun was. Epic entrance.

I've never heard a super stealthy helicopter, especially when there's four of you and two of you are Chinooks and it's in the wee small hours.

[Evalu8ter]

Monty,
"I've never heard a super stealthy helicopter"

That's the whole point! There could be one outside now.........

[high spirits]

My money is on vortex ring or tailstrike. Recirc should be taken into consideration in the planning. If it has not been considered, that is baguette et buerre... Recirc should not necessarily be an issue when hovering higher above the wall whilst roping.

[parabellum]

One of the reports here in Australia has suggested he suffered mechanical problems, possibly caused by gunfire from the roof, with the resultant landing being the best he could hope for, rather than any pilot error.

[Tourist]

You know, people do just **** up. Even super special sf aircrew screw up just as often as everybody else because they are doing things closer to the limits than everybody else.
Chances are it was a combination of the possibilities, mixed with a bit of miscalculation and nerves thrown in. Doesn't matter how many sf missions you have done, invading a sovereign country to take down public enemy no1 and become famous (within the comunity) is goiing to cause some jitters.

[Really annoyed]

You know, people do just **** up

Oh come on tourist, this is pprune. Everybody has to analyse, criticise and say how much better they could have carried out the operation. We are only on page 4 of this thread. It needs to go on for at least another 6 pages.