Iraq - It Was About Oil. So Is Libya
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Iraq - It Was About Oil. So Is Libya
The Independent has published leaked memos that confirm that the Iraq war was about oil - to the point that Britain went to war to ensure that BP and Shell could get their fair share of the spoils.
I think we can now safely presume that European and American action in Libya is driven by exactly the same dynamic. It would appear that Governments, whatever their persuasion, are NOT safe from our attentions if they are sitting on lakes of oil.
Secret memos expose link between oil firms and invasion of Iraq - UK Politics, UK - The Independent
I think we can now safely presume that European and American action in Libya is driven by exactly the same dynamic. It would appear that Governments, whatever their persuasion, are NOT safe from our attentions if they are sitting on lakes of oil.
After another meeting, this one in October 2002, the Foreign Office's Middle East director at the time, Edward Chaplin, noted: "Shell and BP could not afford not to have a stake in [Iraq] for the sake of their long-term future... We were determined to get a fair slice of the action for UK companies in a post-Saddam Iraq."
Whereas BP was insisting in public that it had "no strategic interest" in Iraq, in private it told the Foreign Office that Iraq was "more important than anything we've seen for a long time".
Whereas BP was insisting in public that it had "no strategic interest" in Iraq, in private it told the Foreign Office that Iraq was "more important than anything we've seen for a long time".
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Of course it was, for the reasons given in the article and surely also because we need a stable region in which to trade. Saddam was, since he invaded Kuwait, a source of instability and had to go.
The problem is that we, the British public, are too sensitive to the realities of our relatively high standard of living, and so had to be lied to. Blair did us a favour, frankly, and as usual with us, gets flak for it.
The problem is that we, the British public, are too sensitive to the realities of our relatively high standard of living, and so had to be lied to. Blair did us a favour, frankly, and as usual with us, gets flak for it.
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To be fair (if only briefly) the newly discovered memos only say that:
'We were determined to get a fair slice of the action for UK companies in a post-Saddam Iraq'
Nothing in the article says that we went to war because of oil (that doesn't mean we did or we didn't - it's just that the article doesn't help either way), what it says is - having spent UK blood and treasure invading the place isn't it reasonable that UK should get a fair share of the rewards?
I accept that I am a bluff old traditionalist, but that doesn't sound like big news to me. A 'leaked' memo showing Tony B had said 'the oil is why we are invading - I made up the WMD thing to fool everyone' would be interesting; this is not.
'We were determined to get a fair slice of the action for UK companies in a post-Saddam Iraq'
Nothing in the article says that we went to war because of oil (that doesn't mean we did or we didn't - it's just that the article doesn't help either way), what it says is - having spent UK blood and treasure invading the place isn't it reasonable that UK should get a fair share of the rewards?
I accept that I am a bluff old traditionalist, but that doesn't sound like big news to me. A 'leaked' memo showing Tony B had said 'the oil is why we are invading - I made up the WMD thing to fool everyone' would be interesting; this is not.
BBC News - British military officers to be sent to Libya
So much for not putting troops on the ground. This is exactly the same thing that happened to the US in the early 60's in Vietnam - and look where that led to! Seems we forget the lessons of only 30 years ago too readily!
So much for not putting troops on the ground. This is exactly the same thing that happened to the US in the early 60's in Vietnam - and look where that led to! Seems we forget the lessons of only 30 years ago too readily!
That would be 40-50 years ago, if you refer to Viet Nam.
30 years ago it was the year 1981 ...
We are getting old, are we not?
EDIT:
Is it just me or is the UN embarking on yet another disturbing facet of globalization? Libya is a curious operation, to date. If nothing else, it lets the French show that they can wave their willies as well as any other power. For that, we thank our French friends.
But let's look at this with as neutral a view as we can.
A sovereign nation state and UN member (regardless of how strangely led, or how culturally backward) is having a civil war. The UN cannot iron out a cease fire, nor a peace agreement, nor get the sides to stop shooting (a common failing on the part of the UN) so it chooses sides and asks various member states to offer up war waging capability in order to back a preferred side with blood and iron.
What member state is pleased with this turn of events?
To paraphrase the lyrics from a Hollywood soundtrack ...
Watcha gonna do when they come for you?
One of these days, it's gonna be the Chinese, rather than the French, waving their willies about ...
Twenty years ago, I was a UN fan. Since about 1992, as I began to understand the distrust of the UN at local levels (Somalia being a beginning, the curious case of Specialist Michael New being another, the cock-ups Ritter exposed over the cease fire agreements,1991 Gulf War, the UN brushed aside by NATO to bomb Serbia over Kosovo in 1999).
I find my taste for that level of multinational collective security to have declined sharply.
What really annoys me, however, is the gutlessness. Note how the UN cut and ran, tail between legs, along with some of its donor nations, after the UN HQ in Baghdad was hit with a bomb in August 2003. Predictable, if you watched UN shenanigans in Somalia, eh?
What nation actually benefits from being a UN member?
At what point does the cost benefit curve knee, or diverge?
How did Iraq benefit from being a UN member?
How does Lebanon?
I ask this at the collective security level, not the health and trade level, where the UN IMO does yeoman work.
30 years ago it was the year 1981 ...
We are getting old, are we not?EDIT:
Is it just me or is the UN embarking on yet another disturbing facet of globalization? Libya is a curious operation, to date. If nothing else, it lets the French show that they can wave their willies as well as any other power. For that, we thank our French friends.
But let's look at this with as neutral a view as we can.
A sovereign nation state and UN member (regardless of how strangely led, or how culturally backward) is having a civil war. The UN cannot iron out a cease fire, nor a peace agreement, nor get the sides to stop shooting (a common failing on the part of the UN) so it chooses sides and asks various member states to offer up war waging capability in order to back a preferred side with blood and iron.
What member state is pleased with this turn of events?
To paraphrase the lyrics from a Hollywood soundtrack ...
Watcha gonna do when they come for you?
One of these days, it's gonna be the Chinese, rather than the French, waving their willies about ...
Twenty years ago, I was a UN fan. Since about 1992, as I began to understand the distrust of the UN at local levels (Somalia being a beginning, the curious case of Specialist Michael New being another, the cock-ups Ritter exposed over the cease fire agreements,1991 Gulf War, the UN brushed aside by NATO to bomb Serbia over Kosovo in 1999).
I find my taste for that level of multinational collective security to have declined sharply.
What really annoys me, however, is the gutlessness. Note how the UN cut and ran, tail between legs, along with some of its donor nations, after the UN HQ in Baghdad was hit with a bomb in August 2003. Predictable, if you watched UN shenanigans in Somalia, eh?
What nation actually benefits from being a UN member?
At what point does the cost benefit curve knee, or diverge?
How did Iraq benefit from being a UN member?
How does Lebanon?
I ask this at the collective security level, not the health and trade level, where the UN IMO does yeoman work.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 19th Apr 2011 at 18:42.
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To be fair (if only briefly) the newly discovered memos only say that:
'We were determined to get a fair slice of the action for UK companies in a post-Saddam Iraq'
Nothing in the article says that we went to war because of oil (that doesn't mean we did or we didn't - it's just that the article doesn't help either way), what it says is - having spent UK blood and treasure invading the place isn't it reasonable that UK should get a fair share of the rewards?
I accept that I am a bluff old traditionalist, but that doesn't sound like big news to me. A 'leaked' memo showing Tony B had said 'the oil is why we are invading - I made up the WMD thing to fool everyone' would be interesting; this is not.
'We were determined to get a fair slice of the action for UK companies in a post-Saddam Iraq'
Nothing in the article says that we went to war because of oil (that doesn't mean we did or we didn't - it's just that the article doesn't help either way), what it says is - having spent UK blood and treasure invading the place isn't it reasonable that UK should get a fair share of the rewards?
I accept that I am a bluff old traditionalist, but that doesn't sound like big news to me. A 'leaked' memo showing Tony B had said 'the oil is why we are invading - I made up the WMD thing to fool everyone' would be interesting; this is not.
Leon -Shell is an Anglo-Dutch company!
From the website:
Shell is a global group of energy and petrochemical companies. Our headquarters are in The Hague, the Netherlands, and our Chief Executive Officer is Peter Voser. The parent company of the Shell group is Royal Dutch Shell plc, which is incorporated in England and Wales.
From the website:
Shell is a global group of energy and petrochemical companies. Our headquarters are in The Hague, the Netherlands, and our Chief Executive Officer is Peter Voser. The parent company of the Shell group is Royal Dutch Shell plc, which is incorporated in England and Wales.
I say bring in a B-52 strike.....
anyone who drives a car, rides a bus or train, buys food, clothing etc etc is a consumer of oil.
Strategically our pollies must preserve the supply otherwise our current lifestyle is up the creek...
Simple really..
anyone who drives a car, rides a bus or train, buys food, clothing etc etc is a consumer of oil.
Strategically our pollies must preserve the supply otherwise our current lifestyle is up the creek...
Simple really..
What secret memos where they like. All I see are quotes from publicised documents.
Grim
The oil part of Shell is as Dutch as windmills, hookers, clogs and "coffee shops" - the UK bit of the company was mostly transport. The petroleum company started in the Dutch East Indies and the Royal Dutch Petroleum Company was formed - that merged with Shell Transport to become Royal Dutch Shell in the 1900s (split 60/40 in favour of the "cloggies").
In my mind they are more Dutch than British - but then again BP and BAES have more non-UK workers than ones from our fair isles.
If we really did go to war for the Global Company benefits then Bliar and the cycloptic jock are even worse than I thought! Thank God that it looks like Cameron is going to veto Brown's bid to lead the IMF - we'd be proper f00cked if that happened.
There might after all be a God
The oil part of Shell is as Dutch as windmills, hookers, clogs and "coffee shops" - the UK bit of the company was mostly transport. The petroleum company started in the Dutch East Indies and the Royal Dutch Petroleum Company was formed - that merged with Shell Transport to become Royal Dutch Shell in the 1900s (split 60/40 in favour of the "cloggies").
In my mind they are more Dutch than British - but then again BP and BAES have more non-UK workers than ones from our fair isles.
If we really did go to war for the Global Company benefits then Bliar and the cycloptic jock are even worse than I thought! Thank God that it looks like Cameron is going to veto Brown's bid to lead the IMF - we'd be proper f00cked if that happened.
There might after all be a God
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Putting Brown in charge of the IMF. Now who thought that bright idea up ?
No good in any of the Gov't jobs he did so is this a case of promote the incompetent to get them out of the way ?
No good in any of the Gov't jobs he did so is this a case of promote the incompetent to get them out of the way ?
British troops warned of Vietnam-like committment?
Errrrrr....last time I checked you lot sat that one out!
The Aussies showed up along with the Thai's, Korean's and Philippino's...but not the folks from Blighty!
Errrrrr....last time I checked you lot sat that one out!
The Aussies showed up along with the Thai's, Korean's and Philippino's...but not the folks from Blighty!
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SASless
Since when did Vietnam fall into the UK's area of defence or NATO ?
Aust has an agreement with the US which means our pollies
blindly follow the Blind US Pollies.
In that era, the UK obviously had more sense !!!
In any case, makes up for the US sitting on the fence for a while in WW11.
Since when did Vietnam fall into the UK's area of defence or NATO ?
Aust has an agreement with the US which means our pollies
blindly follow the Blind US Pollies.
In that era, the UK obviously had more sense !!!
In any case, makes up for the US sitting on the fence for a while in WW11.