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If you think the Brits are in trouble, look at the Cloggies

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If you think the Brits are in trouble, look at the Cloggies

Old 8th Apr 2011, 16:21
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If you think the Brits are in trouble, look at the Cloggies

Bad news from across the Channel.


Dutch Army to sell Leopards and Cougars
(Source: Dutch News; published April 8, 2011)

THE HAGUE --- The cabinet is virtually certain to announce enormous cutbacks at defence today. According to a leaked draft version of the measures, 12,000 jobs and complete army units will disappear.

Defence Minister Hans Hillen already announced permanent budget cuts of 1 billion euros per year earlier. The cabinet already considered the far-reaching cutbacks last week. The decision was however postponed and will likely be made today.


Public broadcaster NOS has already obtained the plans. It says that all 60 Leopard tanks will be divested. The 17 Cougar helicopters are also to go, as well as four of the 10 mine-sweepers. At least one-third of the 86 F-16s will also be sold.


Some 12,300 jobs will disappear. Around 6,000 soldiers will face forced redundancies. NOS has not yet discovered where the blows will actually fall.


The unions are furious and derisive. Bigger missions such as that in Uruzgan - four years, 2,000 personnel - will no longer be possible in the future, says ACOM chairman Kleian. "The Netherlands will have a Belgian armed forces. Flying now and then. And if there is money and petrol, then we will do a trick."


According to defence sources, the Apache helicopters and Bushmaster heavy armoured vehicles will take over the tasks of the Leopards. The Netherlands can also step up European partnership, for example with Germany. But for this, there appears to be more willingness within the Netherlands than outside it.


The Netherlands and Germany do already have a combined army unit. Allies are however hesitant about awarding full air force or army tasks to a specific country.


One in seven of the military must fear for their jobs. Defence currently employs nearly 69,000 people, including 48,300 military. Hillen will sharply prune the number of officers. Generals will also not escape the cutbacks.


A sour detail for the military who are virtually on the street is that the cabinet will likely also approve the purchase of a second F35 JSF test aircraft today. This US fighter aircraft is to replace the F-16s. The investment will cost many billions. (ends)



Defence Ministry Plans to Scrap Jobs, not JSF (Source: Radio Netherlands; issued April 7, 2011)

Thousands of Defence Ministry staff are facing forced redundancies, according to government sources quoted by de Volkskrant newspaper.

The measures will reportedly affect both military service staff and civil servants at all ranks, including the higher echelons. They’re part of an unprecented one-billion-dollar cost-cutting operation, planned by Defence Minister Hans Hillen.


Equipment will be scrapped too. Tanks will be disposed of, as will the Cougar-helicopters that were deployed in recent years as part of the Dutch contribution to the NATO-led mission in Afghanistan. A substantial number of F-16 fighter aircraft and naval vessels will be sold off.


However, the controversial purchase of a second Joint Strike Fighter test plane, to the tune of 100 million euros, is likely to go ahead as planned. The US-built jet is to replace the Netherlands’ aging fleet of F-16s. Not buying the second plane would have repercussions for the Dutch involvement in the development and production of the planes. (ends)
airsound
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 16:33
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The 17 Cougar helicopters are also to go
How many Puma LEP are we doing?
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 19:04
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Pity,

of all the Euroland nations, the Dutch are amongst the least det-shy and pull their weight - and more importantly are competent.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 11:14
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A substantial number of F-16 fighter aircraft and naval vessels will be sold off.
Does this mean a reduction in the number of Dutch Caps available to NATO?
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:04
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It's okay every country announcing these cuts and selling off their assets, but who the heck are buying them at what miust be the bottom of the market, with the glut of equipment available.?
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:47
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"but who the heck are buying them at what miust be the bottom of the market, with the glut of equipment available.?"

Chile seem to have the knack of picking up a bargain, the aussies have just bought Largs bay for half of what it cost to build.

apparently these cougars are due a mid life update anyway and are due to be replaced by nh-90 in the medium tearm so this may just be a "capability holiday" if a pretty big one!
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 12:49
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Nutloose


Chile maybe?


http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...charleroi.html
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 14:25
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apparently these cougars are due a mid life update anyway and are due to be replaced by nh-90 in the medium tearm so this may just be a "capability holiday" if a pretty big one!
Mind you, we'd know all about that eh!

What interests me is, what has prompted the Dutch Government to do this? Is it because they're in debt up to the ends of their noses as well? Or are they placing blind faith in the future and the much mooted Euro Army!? For which read Euro Air Force and Euro Navy!

FB
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 14:31
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Just thinking, if we had the Euro Forces, the Air bit wouldn't half have a wide range of interesting types with duplicated roles and varying capabilities; Typhoon, F16, Rafale, Gripen, Mirage 2000, Mirage F1, Tornado, Centaur, Harrier! and so on. It'd be like the R.A.F. circa 1986!!

FB
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 14:45
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don't be blinded chaps; there is a deeper meaning to these military cuts in the UK and Europe and it is now the militarisation of your EU Parliament political stuff.

Next, Whitehall moves to Brussells to save money [ah well better chips!]

You were warned...

The United States of Europe.......

*something that Napoleon and AH failed at but?????
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 15:46
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The government here have realised the Bush/Blair era Arab interventions have not been fruitful or popular. Apart from a cut in the MCM fleet, the Navy is largely unaffected, highlighting that The Netherlands (unlike the UK) is keen to maintain the maratime protection that it needs as a trading nation.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 18:51
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It's okay every country announcing these cuts and selling off their assets, but who the heck are buying them at what miust be the bottom of the market, with the glut of equipment available.?
As knowitall implied, the bottom of the market is (I would have thought) not a bad time to buy.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 20:11
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Shell M,

Reference your comments in post 11, perhaps the reason the government of the Netherlands elected not to reduce the Navy much in the defence cutbacks is simply because there is not much of a Navy left to cut!

Current forces stand at:

6 Frigates
2 OPVs
4 SSKs
10 MCMs (presumably these are in line for cuts as you suggest)
A small number of support vessels.

In the last 10 years the Netherlands government has disposed of the following naval assets:

2001 2 Frigates to Greece
2002 1 Frigate to Greece
2003 1 Frigate to Greece
2004 2 Frigates to Chile
2005 2 Frigates to Chile
2 Frigates to Belgium
2006 2 Frigates to Portugal

Hardly the act of a nation keen to maintain a strong maritime naval presence.

Indeed, I believe the Dutch Navy is now refered to as a "green water" navy as opposed to a "blue water" water. Those in the know will appreciate the difference!
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 12:59
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Indeed, I believe the Dutch Navy is now refered to as a "green water" navy as opposed to a "blue water" water. Those in the know will appreciate the difference!
Judging by those figures, I would say a "Yellow Water" Navy, as for a viable deterrent they are taking the p**s
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Old 12th Apr 2011, 09:26
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The Dutch have just put out a tender to move 160 military vehicles by sea from Netherlands to Chile this summer so that might answer the question....
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Old 12th Apr 2011, 11:02
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Maybe they are invading?
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Old 12th Apr 2011, 14:10
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Chile is code word for Malvinas!
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