PVR & RoS
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PVR & RoS
I'm currently a Sgt WSOp(EW) with 5 years remaining out of my 12. I completed my first OCU in early 2007 and am now faced with the prospect of having to move down South etc but I'd rather stay in the area I'm in at present as my family is settled, I own my house and I like it up here!
I had to sign a 6-year RoS to be allowed to go on my OCU but have been offered a civilian job in the area where I live - obviously, my RoS expires in early 2013 but does anyone know if they can hold me to it? I know Sgts aren't in Tranche 1 and are nearly at manning balance for 2015 but I can't afford to move down South and am totally p!ssed off with RAF now and just want out. Can they hold me to the RoS or is it possible to get round it?
Cheers, Letsgo
I had to sign a 6-year RoS to be allowed to go on my OCU but have been offered a civilian job in the area where I live - obviously, my RoS expires in early 2013 but does anyone know if they can hold me to it? I know Sgts aren't in Tranche 1 and are nearly at manning balance for 2015 but I can't afford to move down South and am totally p!ssed off with RAF now and just want out. Can they hold me to the RoS or is it possible to get round it?
Cheers, Letsgo
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In theory I think that they can hold you to a RoS if required, but you're probably better off asking these questions to your Posting Officer. With the very strange situation that exists at the moment they may just waive the RoS and let you PVR.
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letsgoandfly
"I had to sign a 6 year RoS to be allowed to go on my OCU."
No you did not
You signed that agreement at that time because it suited you to do so (and ensured a greater salary including Flying Pay). Aircrew are all volunteers and it has never been the case that Personnel have been ordered to be Aircrew.
"I had to sign a 6 year RoS to be allowed to go on my OCU."
No you did not
You signed that agreement at that time because it suited you to do so (and ensured a greater salary including Flying Pay). Aircrew are all volunteers and it has never been the case that Personnel have been ordered to be Aircrew.
Caz,
he is correct in having to sign a ROS to attend an OCF. It may be this ensured greater pay etc, and at no point does he/she allude to any force being applied, so his statement was actually factually correct.
Returning to the OP,
I believe that all bets are off wrt ROS, particularly if in a shrinking trade such as WSOp EW. As an earlier poster advised - talk to the desk officer.
I can't see anyone stitching you over a ROS just to make you redundant in Tranche 2 or 3. Let's not kid ourselves - we know there is going to be some.
he is correct in having to sign a ROS to attend an OCF. It may be this ensured greater pay etc, and at no point does he/she allude to any force being applied, so his statement was actually factually correct.
Returning to the OP,
I believe that all bets are off wrt ROS, particularly if in a shrinking trade such as WSOp EW. As an earlier poster advised - talk to the desk officer.
I can't see anyone stitching you over a ROS just to make you redundant in Tranche 2 or 3. Let's not kid ourselves - we know there is going to be some.
I agree with Caz that there was likely no "had to" about signing this Bonding agreement.
Legally, the signee was probably (properly?) informed of the intent and implications of signing, and signed it, taking the then perceived benefit of attending the course and thereby enhancing his/her future career.
This situation is no different from any civil case of Bonding Agreement that I've seen.
Unless the signee can indicate an error in the offer and signing process the outcome is almost inevitable.
In most civil cases brought to court the signee has had to pay his/her way out of the "agreement" (a pro-rata payment) - or their future employer has voluntarily paid it, and the signee ends up in the same situation but with another employer.
Legally, the signee was probably (properly?) informed of the intent and implications of signing, and signed it, taking the then perceived benefit of attending the course and thereby enhancing his/her future career.
This situation is no different from any civil case of Bonding Agreement that I've seen.
Unless the signee can indicate an error in the offer and signing process the outcome is almost inevitable.
In most civil cases brought to court the signee has had to pay his/her way out of the "agreement" (a pro-rata payment) - or their future employer has voluntarily paid it, and the signee ends up in the same situation but with another employer.
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Gents, thank you for taking the time to reply to my question, which I imagien has been asked plenty of times before!
Cazatou, Rigga, you are correct, there was no force etc applied to me to sign the RoS however, if I knew what would happen 4 years later I might not have signed it in the first place! Incidentally, there was no advice given, jsut a quick 'here's something you all need to sign' so we all did.
I have had a brief chat with the desk officer as he has all of ISK wanting to speak to him and it would be that they are keen to have RoS honoured - seems silly if they might make me redundant and give me £20k and my commitment bonus when I would be perfectly happy to leave with nothing now!
Thanks anyway, just been a frustrating day at work hearing the manning brief. Thanks again!
Cazatou, Rigga, you are correct, there was no force etc applied to me to sign the RoS however, if I knew what would happen 4 years later I might not have signed it in the first place! Incidentally, there was no advice given, jsut a quick 'here's something you all need to sign' so we all did.
I have had a brief chat with the desk officer as he has all of ISK wanting to speak to him and it would be that they are keen to have RoS honoured - seems silly if they might make me redundant and give me £20k and my commitment bonus when I would be perfectly happy to leave with nothing now!
Thanks anyway, just been a frustrating day at work hearing the manning brief. Thanks again!
You could declare yourself to be a conscientious objector and see how it goes.
On the other hand, you could always informally ask the question of the 'system', explain your position and ask if you can apply for release - they can only say; 'No'. At present there is a considerable amount of sympathy and pragmatism about the situation people like you are in and I believe an 'upfront' approach will do you no harm.
Old Duffer
On the other hand, you could always informally ask the question of the 'system', explain your position and ask if you can apply for release - they can only say; 'No'. At present there is a considerable amount of sympathy and pragmatism about the situation people like you are in and I believe an 'upfront' approach will do you no harm.
Old Duffer
"Incidentally, there was no advice given, jsut a quick 'here's something you all need to sign' so we all did."
If you can prove this was the way it happened it is deemed an "improper process", a bit like mis-selling Bank Insurances/Mortgages, and it may save you some time and/or money.
Best of Luck whatever you decide.
If you can prove this was the way it happened it is deemed an "improper process", a bit like mis-selling Bank Insurances/Mortgages, and it may save you some time and/or money.
Best of Luck whatever you decide.
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A decent employment lawyer would get you where you want to be, provided you pay for the service.... I feel sorry for your plight especially having based your life up north on good faith. Hope you get what you want, and don't let the b&stards grind you down. This could be an almighty blessing in disguise - you never know!
Oh, by the way Caz, the world has changed and so has the Service since you reaped the benefits from it - have a bit of sympathy and stop being such an @rse!
Oh, by the way Caz, the world has changed and so has the Service since you reaped the benefits from it - have a bit of sympathy and stop being such an @rse!
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Many many moons back I was presented with a similar bit of paper to sign before I started a conversion course.
I never actually signed it! still went on the course funny old thing.
But 5 years left out of 12 is actually still quite a lot! when you signed up in the mob you were told there were no promises in where you would be posted, so that could include Down South as well as up there!
Ask the question, if you had not signed the RoS paperwork would they have sent you on the OCU back then? If not what would you have done? civvie street???
In our trades we are pretty lucky in we know there are a limited number of available postings, and am sure you knew the options when you joined
There are a lot of trades that get moved all over the country.
However, you can always ask the question of the desk officer and see what they say
I never actually signed it! still went on the course funny old thing.
But 5 years left out of 12 is actually still quite a lot! when you signed up in the mob you were told there were no promises in where you would be posted, so that could include Down South as well as up there!
Ask the question, if you had not signed the RoS paperwork would they have sent you on the OCU back then? If not what would you have done? civvie street???
In our trades we are pretty lucky in we know there are a limited number of available postings, and am sure you knew the options when you joined
There are a lot of trades that get moved all over the country.
However, you can always ask the question of the desk officer and see what they say
Not sure why everyone is getting wrapped in this RoS signature debate as you are just a chap trying to leave - nothing new in that.
The RoS does not stop you applying for a PVR, it just may stop you from exiting in the timescale you seek. Please discuss your options with your desk officer before hitting the button. If you are already committed to leaving come-what-may then hit the button anyway and the Service will have to react!
Think carefully, discuss with your family, your mates and your CoC. I was chatting to your stn cdr the other day and he is committed to helping everyone he can, even if your chosen path is outside the RAF. Good luck and I am sorry it has all come to this.
The RoS does not stop you applying for a PVR, it just may stop you from exiting in the timescale you seek. Please discuss your options with your desk officer before hitting the button. If you are already committed to leaving come-what-may then hit the button anyway and the Service will have to react!
Think carefully, discuss with your family, your mates and your CoC. I was chatting to your stn cdr the other day and he is committed to helping everyone he can, even if your chosen path is outside the RAF. Good luck and I am sorry it has all come to this.
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Oh, by the way Caz, the world has changed and so has the Service since you reaped the benefits from it - have a bit of sympathy and stop being such an @rse!
Anyway you can't reply to cazpapoo like that. He was a royal flight pilot don't you know. He lives in france don't you know.
OP You really need to speak to your posting officer. He is the one who will have the definitive answer, not an internet spotters forum. They can't sack you for inquiring. Oh email them rather than ring them, as you will have something in writing rather than trying to prove what they said over the phone.
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You probably signed the RoS with an understanding that you would be employed in a specific role, or job. If your employer has now moved you out of that role or job then your RoS should no longer apply.
That is - the RAF can't possibly require an amortisation of training cost for an ASW role that they no longer have!
Good luck
That is - the RAF can't possibly require an amortisation of training cost for an ASW role that they no longer have!
Good luck
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If you have no joy with the DO then ask your SO1 to reason with his Boss - surname is Monk. If still no joy and you have the ear of your Stn Cdr then ask to call 2 up - surname Connor. Search on DII, all their posts start with Air-Mann. Thermonuclear option is a Service Complaint to the AOC (after all the OCF that you attended and signed a ROS for cannot now offer you a cockpit).
You'll be surprised at what you can get if you're prepared to elevate it - make yourself a pain in their arse and they'll soon be only too pleased to let you go.
Finally, you could always fail the fitness test. You could be out in 9 months and get a bit of friendly PT remedial in at the same time!
I agree it would be mad not to let you go and force out someone else who wants to stay. You could always dress up like a woman as in Clinger in MASH; but then again, they might send you to helicopters!
You'll be surprised at what you can get if you're prepared to elevate it - make yourself a pain in their arse and they'll soon be only too pleased to let you go.
Finally, you could always fail the fitness test. You could be out in 9 months and get a bit of friendly PT remedial in at the same time!
I agree it would be mad not to let you go and force out someone else who wants to stay. You could always dress up like a woman as in Clinger in MASH; but then again, they might send you to helicopters!
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Some of you guys really do need to start paying Caz the respect he deserves after all how many of you guys ever worked 11 out of 12 months every year for 14 years and never ever got time to use your leave allowance 
Quote:
Oh, by the way Caz, the world has changed and so has the Service since you reaped the benefits from it - have a bit of sympathy and stop being such an @rse!
OMG!!!! Yes OMG Minidumb, get over it.
Oh, by the way Caz, the world has changed and so has the Service since you reaped the benefits from it - have a bit of sympathy and stop being such an @rse!
OMG!!!! Yes OMG Minidumb, get over it.
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Notwithstanding the god advice to speak to your desk officer, with the current shrinking air force, it's likely your type doesn't exist anymore, so how can they enforce a ROS on a type that isn't in service?
You are in a trade that is being hammered.
The RAF has to get rid of thousands.
You are offering to go quietly.
You have a job offer.
One less drama for your DO and the system.
Enjoy your new job and life.
The RAF has to get rid of thousands.
You are offering to go quietly.
You have a job offer.
One less drama for your DO and the system.
Enjoy your new job and life.