Is this Fair?
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Of course it's not fair. Made me sit up in shock, to be honest, this news...if the flying race aren't safe from the axe, then no-one is. It seems especially unfair because of the investment made on all sides - the taxpayer, the RAF and those who have invested their hopes and talents in the RAF.
It's also not fair that the executives of bust banks have been bailed out and are walking away with millions after failing again. It's also not fair that there are 650-odd MPs and plenty of peers sitting on plush leather and sucking the taxpayers' nipple.
Just because it isn't fair, doesn't mean that it cannot happen, as is unfolding.
Equally, you may have some redress under law. In times past, there may have been notions of 'loyalty' to the Service...hmm. So, seek whatever legal avenues are open to you, along with others if required, taking expert advice. Redundancies will happen regardless, but the employer can be made to compensate the employee if it wasn't handled properly, and the only way that businesses, managers and leaders actually learn is from financial penalties (if indeed they do). And you have yourself to look out for as well, most importantly....no-one else will.
It's also not fair that the executives of bust banks have been bailed out and are walking away with millions after failing again. It's also not fair that there are 650-odd MPs and plenty of peers sitting on plush leather and sucking the taxpayers' nipple.
Just because it isn't fair, doesn't mean that it cannot happen, as is unfolding.
Equally, you may have some redress under law. In times past, there may have been notions of 'loyalty' to the Service...hmm. So, seek whatever legal avenues are open to you, along with others if required, taking expert advice. Redundancies will happen regardless, but the employer can be made to compensate the employee if it wasn't handled properly, and the only way that businesses, managers and leaders actually learn is from financial penalties (if indeed they do). And you have yourself to look out for as well, most importantly....no-one else will.
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Hachet Harry
What's fair got to do with it?
The world doesn't owe anybody a living and the MOD is no different. A sad time without doubt and those affected have my deepest sympathies, but legal action?
Like that Harrier chap who was reported to have had a dig at the PM over the axing of his fleet. He was reported to have said words to the effect of 'What about me'! Well yes, what about you?
I realise that this post will make me sound cold and heartless and for that I apologise. My point is that we all need to wake up to the 'new world' and realise that although this is not fair, neither is life in general.
What's fair got to do with it?
The world doesn't owe anybody a living and the MOD is no different. A sad time without doubt and those affected have my deepest sympathies, but legal action?
Like that Harrier chap who was reported to have had a dig at the PM over the axing of his fleet. He was reported to have said words to the effect of 'What about me'! Well yes, what about you?
I realise that this post will make me sound cold and heartless and for that I apologise. My point is that we all need to wake up to the 'new world' and realise that although this is not fair, neither is life in general.
If that is the way we are going, then lets see revised terms of service. It will then be a brave PM who questions those who choose not to offer the "ultimate sacrifice" as those who have gone before have been prepared to offer. Is it a job or are we serving the Nation? The two are not the same!
It may be approaching decision time for many. Do those who still care choose service or self preservation? I do hope I'm not being over melodramatic.
Last edited by Geehovah; 9th Mar 2011 at 17:55.
Geehovah, I couldn't agree more!
As far as Pilots go (and I do know that many other loyal servicemen/women have been equally shafted by SDSR, if not more so), the RAF must come up with an 'equivalence' proposal which can ease transition to civil flying. There are 2 distinct issues here:
1. SDSR
2. EASA part-FCL
The first issue means that many highly talented pilots will be out of a military flying appointment. Any sensible airline of quality will bend over backwards to attract them as they are infinitely better future employees than pilots who have never been aptitude tested. But the second issue is something which the RAF owes to all its pilots to accommodate and which is also a significant recruiting and retention incentive - which, although not crucial right now, most surely will be in a few years' time!
Good luck; I know darn well that pretty well 100% of those chopped at Valley of late are of much higher quality than I ever was. I just had to know how to keep a Gnat airborne for 50 min without killing myself - you've had vastly more complex mission profiles to cope with.
Interestingly, I heard yesterday that the dumbing down of core skills has now trickled through to CFS. It seems that a large number of skills which any military pilot used to have are now having to be re-taught to some CFS students. To which I have to say "I told you this would happen!"...
As far as Pilots go (and I do know that many other loyal servicemen/women have been equally shafted by SDSR, if not more so), the RAF must come up with an 'equivalence' proposal which can ease transition to civil flying. There are 2 distinct issues here:
1. SDSR
2. EASA part-FCL
The first issue means that many highly talented pilots will be out of a military flying appointment. Any sensible airline of quality will bend over backwards to attract them as they are infinitely better future employees than pilots who have never been aptitude tested. But the second issue is something which the RAF owes to all its pilots to accommodate and which is also a significant recruiting and retention incentive - which, although not crucial right now, most surely will be in a few years' time!
Good luck; I know darn well that pretty well 100% of those chopped at Valley of late are of much higher quality than I ever was. I just had to know how to keep a Gnat airborne for 50 min without killing myself - you've had vastly more complex mission profiles to cope with.
Interestingly, I heard yesterday that the dumbing down of core skills has now trickled through to CFS. It seems that a large number of skills which any military pilot used to have are now having to be re-taught to some CFS students. To which I have to say "I told you this would happen!"...
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Geehovah
An eloquent post. The "Harrier chap" had served in Afghanistan adding to his angst when responding to PM who like others likes to portray himself as being 100% "behind the troops" but then has no problem in dispensing with them once their purpose has been served! No change there I suppose, it's what we have always done.
Has anyone noticed that the no campaign (David Cameron's view) to any change in the voting system now uses a poster showing a soldier and the cost of body armour as compared to a voting paper and the cost of a change from first past the post. Politics aside how crass. Do they think the Public is that stupid to believe there is any connection.
An eloquent post. The "Harrier chap" had served in Afghanistan adding to his angst when responding to PM who like others likes to portray himself as being 100% "behind the troops" but then has no problem in dispensing with them once their purpose has been served! No change there I suppose, it's what we have always done.
Has anyone noticed that the no campaign (David Cameron's view) to any change in the voting system now uses a poster showing a soldier and the cost of body armour as compared to a voting paper and the cost of a change from first past the post. Politics aside how crass. Do they think the Public is that stupid to believe there is any connection.
Interestingly, I heard yesterday that the dumbing down of core skills has now trickled through to CFS.
To date the output from CFS(H) has been broadly comparable [on the mighty wokka], but it is a retrograde step forced by high dilution levels and poor manning rather than any improvement in the quality of line pilots.
Ultimately, it is another of the checks and balances that have been removed due to the over-riding requirement to fight 'the' war.
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Ultimately, it is another of the checks and balances that have been removed due to the over-riding requirement to fight 'the' war.
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More management babble !
And why ?
Does that mean they will do it for every other trade group being shafted ? For that matter, every other public servant ?
Sorry to say it, but if you think a pair of wings ( or even a brave attempt to get them ) gives you a special right then get real and welcome to employment in the 21st century
the RAF must come up with an 'equivalence' proposal which can ease transition to civil flying.
Does that mean they will do it for every other trade group being shafted ? For that matter, every other public servant ?
Sorry to say it, but if you think a pair of wings ( or even a brave attempt to get them ) gives you a special right then get real and welcome to employment in the 21st century
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although Hachet Harry may just be fishing.
the RAF must come up with an 'equivalence' proposal which can ease transition to civil flying.
The boarding requirement for QHI's applying to CFS(H) was lowered from Above Average to High Average a couple of years ago.
Like I said, I didn't intend to come over as heartless, but at the same time, I'm not a politician, so don't have to say just what people WANT to hear. As Geehover pointed out, it most certainly is a different Air Force to the one we joined; certainly more corporate, financially and capability aware. We would love to think that the Services still offer a career for life. Sadly few if any careers these days do. We can either whine about it and consider ourselves hard done by, or we can accept the reality and embrace the opportunities that change offers.
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The Gorilla
So why does it say "Redundancy" on my F856 and do I also have to pay back my redundancy payment. I was not TUPE'd as you put it. What makes you think that you know what happened to me?
As for TUPE, I would suggest you read up on that before shouting the odds
Acas - Transfer of undertakings (TUPE)
I was there at the time, you were NOT made redundant you were TUPE'd across to a civilian company - a big difference!
As for TUPE, I would suggest you read up on that before shouting the odds
Acas - Transfer of undertakings (TUPE)
